I cannot look at the heavens and see the stars and ponder the universe without thinking about God. And the most amazing thing to me is that he values US--you and Me, measly human beings--over the stars. Amazing.

As far as Contact goes (though I see your about to move on to other movies). I loved the movie--not only because Matthew McConaughy was in it (I am a teenaged female)=) but also because I felt that it was an awesome argument for God. I believe that while science maybe can't prove God (which would leave no room for faith) but it can ultimately support His existence, His sovereignty, His power in creation, and His love.

I think I'll have to bookmark this page and come back though I feel I may be somewhat out of my league. Being only a young 'un, I've only had one year of physics, and it was... well it was a high school course!!!

How else would anyone rationalize a woman having a baby without ever having a man's sperm nearby/ The world being created in 7 days

Were you associating scientist with lions? and if so, was this a negative association? do lions carry a lessor connotation? ( are you judging?)who are you to judge who is and who is not a Christian? I wonder if the Hindu religion considered "Christians of 1,900 years ago, new age hipsters. You sure must feel lucky to just so happen to believe in the correct religion. Is there a committee that establishes what is and what is not a religion? Are you an American? Do you believe in freedom of religion or just freedom for your religion? What if it was against my religion to not be able to purchase beer in any place in America on Sunday morning? (communism?) perhaps Christian values are also communist. If they could have their way would they have their way? This sounds like communism and communism might be considered a threat to national security. should we all known Christians into the military or should it be a don't ask don't tell deal? Were the marines that committed treason heterosexual Christians? How trivial. beer laws are made by the community. So were slave laws before 1861. Perhaps recognition of freedom is ever expanding. Would most self proclaimed Christians own a slave in 1820 or would most atheist and agnostics own most of the slaves? Could Christian preachers be the real wolves in the sheep's clothing? Do they liken themselves to shepherds? If so they may know best how to mimic a wolf Have all the religions been established and if so, how long ago? For instance, one hour after the Baptist religion was started? All us other poor saps may be hopelessly delusional. challenge you to look Paul Hill (murderer)in the face and call him a non-Christian. I can imagine that he would consider you not being a Christian perhaps because you might only hold up a sign and not "actively" participate in "God's" will.

Did you read that there is finally peace in Europe? Perhaps when the Catholics and the Protestants finish killing each other there will only be a bunch of civilized, peaceful agnostics and atheist left to love one another. Do you consider all of the self proclaimed Catholics and Protestants, fighting in Europe, non-Christian? "Onward Christian soldiers?"

I may be wrong about all of this. I also believe anything is possible. Please give me feedback. Thank you for patiently reading through this unedited piece. Again I am open your opinion and to any education you might be able to offer.

Over the past few years, after I have seen contact and read Carl Sagan's books, I have come to believe that there might not be a God or Gods. Why? Because I find there is no need for his or their existence. Scientists today are solving many mysteries and may one day not be able to solve one. So what? We are bound to arrive to our limits. For example, String Theory, a problem in physics has not been solve and some say we have might not ever solve it because it is beyond our intelligence. Everything we have learned about the universe so far tells us that no creator was needed and when we solve how the universe came to be, that may prove that a divine entity may not exist. If we need love in time when we have no one else's we go to God. Why not do what the extraterrestrial in Contact do. Lets love and help each other instead of looking for a being that might not exist. There are people out there who care. If not, be strong and self-confident that you are a great human being and that you and everyone else on this earth is very unique. Do something with your life and be great.

My point here is that the teachings of religions across the world are very vague. They are great but is the inventor really supernatural? I think the some teachings of Jesus Christ are excellent. My opinion is that he did exist but he was just a human and his teaching were a product of his human conscience. We may feel that God or Gods are with us right now but can that feeling be a placebo effect in which we are deluding ourselves. Miracles can be a product of this. Miracles in the Bible could have been simple things that were exaggerated. It has happened before. My view is that there is no need for a creator or divine entity. In a deep sense, Ellie's case is very different.

I also think that Hawking's saying is not literal. He is saying that we will soon know the universe as a whole and why it exist.

Contact made me really think of the concept "Okkams Razor". What is more likely? An almighty powerful God created us and gave us a mind capable of deciphering the mysteries of the universe, gave us the ability to doubt his existence, says that the universe is only 7,000 years old and yet that mind he gave us discovers a contradiction to that argument. Or that the universe created itself by processes we cannot understand or may never, that we created God because we saw the sun rise and set and thinking we can do the same, and that believing in a supreme being is a product of human evolution so we can survive and bring order to our society and not be afraid.

Anyway, back to your post... Have you ever wondered why there are so many Christians who insist that the word, "day" in Genesis means a literal, 24 hour period? You might find it interesting to know that they didn't always believe that. The original Church fathers who founded institutional Christianity thought that the word day meant long periods or epochs. And this was back as early as 100 AD One of the reasons for this is the limitations of the Hebrew language. For example, it also says in Genesis that "A DAY with the Lord is like a thousand years." There wasn't a word in the Hebrew language which means "long period" or "epoch," and they used "day" interchangeably. What is even more interesting is that the English language DOES have words to denote long periods or epochs, but we STILL use the word, "day" interchangeably the way the Hebrews did. We say things like, "Modern day medicine" or "the day of the dinosaur."

http://www.bibleplus.org/Discoveries/discoveries.htm

What is your meaning of life? E.g. Why do we need to live? What are we living for? What do you think the truth is? Especially applying these questions to that if there is no God or if we don't need God, etc.

I guess that I am a little sensitive about critical remarks about grammar and so forth. I have been using computers to cover my butt in this (small) area. TJ's timing could not have worst. I had just ran this page through a spell checker and uploaded it when his entry appeared. Spelling is all I check for. Yesterday I returned from France. I don't speak French but a lot of those people speak English. I have nothing but admiration for anyone who is still willing to express themselves without perfect command of the English language.

This web site has entries from all over the world. It has entries ranging from highly educated scientists to children. All are welcome here, at least for another week.

Along the same lines, you state that the more we understand, the more likely God becomes and the more credit he deserves. Before lightning was understood, man explained it by a god. Now we know how clouds and electrical charges work resulting in a bolt from the sky. I think what you are saying, is that in understanding these intricate workings, God deserves credit for the design. But using your own words, who is to say that the laws of physics are god's?

Some say, "god works in mysterious ways" to rationalize these evils, perhaps he killed that child because the child would grow to do some greater evil. Ok, but why did the child need to be burned alive, and endure such pain. Certainly the innocent child never intentionally inflicted such pain on another, so punishment rational does not work either, plus an all-loving god forgives, not punishes.

Some claim that there is a devil, an evil god to oppose the good one, and it is this devil who is responsible for unnecessary evils. Well, then God is not omnipotent, or he would surely destroy the devil, and there cannot be two ALL powerful gods.

Here is the argument that is most valid to me - that god created the best world in which free will could exist, and it is human actions that are responsible for unnecessary evils. Well, some of the most horrible sufferings in the world have been due to diseases, viruses, not man.

I hope everyone in the West had a chance the partial lunar eclipse this morning. Events like that have a way of putting things into clearer perspective, whatever your perspective may be. I took lots of pictures. Hopefully one or two will turn out. If they do I will put them on this site.

In regards to the issue of people who've not heard of God going to Hell. I believe at this point in my life and learning, that all people are given an inborn instinct that there is a God. Romans 1:20 says, "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." To me this says that we intuitively know that there is a higher being and we see through creation that He is there. Somehow, people seem to know that there is something out there bigger than us that got us here. Why else would religion of some sort have been so prevalent in virtually all of human history (from what I've absorbed from my h. school education and history classes anyway)? That's where the term child-like faith comes in. Children trust easily in God because the inborn knowledge of Him is there. I believe that God is just and loving. A person who has not ever heard the name Jesus or conceived of an organized religion will not be held to the same account as a person who has seen the Gospel, laid out for them. I don't know what God will do, cause I'm not Him, but I believe that He in all of His justness, is merciful, and gracious to all of His children.

The Hell thing. God loves us all. This is true. But God cannot tolerate sin. He just can't. Justness, is also a part of His character. God is perfect and he cannot tolerate the imperfection of sin that we chose by our free will. So, he must separate us from Him. But, His grace provided a way to Him despite that--through Jesus' death on the cross. We must only accept the gift of His grace.

As far as an all-powerful God having the power to defeat Satan. He does and He will. There is a final battle between God and Satan told of in Revelations. It describes the defeat of Satan that will take place during the time after Jesus' return. In the end, God will win. He will overcome, and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth where God's way will be lived out. Revelations 21:3-4 describes a bit about this new place in saying, "And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.'"

And what will Heaven be like? I have no idea. It's like a Christmas gift. Part of the fun is waiting to see what it will be.

Proving God? I've learned that only God can prove Himself. My proof is within myself. I'm different with Him and His leading than I am without, and there are things that have happened in my life that I can only attribute to God and His hand on me.

This is what I've come to believe. But, I in no way claim to know the answers.

Val, why can't God tolerate sin? I always thought that acceptance of anther's flaws and patience was a huge part of love. At least it has been in my life. Is God's love so different? As for God defeating Satan, what is he waiting for? That question may be unfair, and most likely has no answer, but it just makes me wonder. It sounds like the world will be perfect after this event...so, what's the deal?

I would also like to say that when I think about it, I was probably too hasty it using the word proof. I completely admit that I could be so far off track that I am just producing nonsense. Took a philosophy of knowledge class and have learned that what we truly know is virtually nothing. But 'proof' is just a word i've come to use when presenting some logical thoughts with a conclusion sort of deal. Also, I have left my e-mail address because the site is shutting down, and I welcome everyone to continue sharing with me. New ideas and revelations usually come through such conversations; sometimes others have impact on you, but more often, you learn more about yourself by expressing yourself outwards.

Also, I think on some level we DO chose what makes sense to us. For example, a religious man will more likely give an argument a fair trial in his own mind if the argument in question is in favor of his own beliefs--and visa-versa. I'm not saying it's always that way. But, certainly bias plays a part in it. Certainly Hitler's racist bias led him to embrace the racist propaganda to which he was exposed. I guess what you and me are discussing are how those biases get in a person in the first place. I cannot deny that personal experience, genetics, or other such forces play a part in it. But, I think it also comes down all of the choices we make in our lives. Sure, we don't decide over night to be ANYTHING, not good or bad. We decide over time, over the long term, which in turn breaks down to the individual choices.

Well folks, this is about it for me. I will be at a family reunion until Monday, so this will be my last regular entry on the forum. I do, however, have one more post, which I will email to Keith later this evening. It is an essay I've been working on since Keith announced he was closing down the forum. I hope you'll read it. I wouldn't have been able to write it without all of the other entries I've read here over the past year and a half. I thank all of you who have taken the time to read my posts, to respond to them, and allow me to learn from you. AND THANK YOU KEITH who made this forum possible!! I'll leave you guys with this little quote--

Freedom, so they say, amounts to the choices you have made...
Freedom, I must say, exists in unconditioned minds.