This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?forum=DCForumID86&mark=5062&az=next_topic&archive=yes as retrieved on Aug 23, 2005 16:32:50 GMT.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current page without highlighting.
This cached page may reference images which are no longer available. Click here for the cached text only.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:aiUKBrBtfwAJ:www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi%3Fforum%3DDCForumID86%26mark%3D5062%26az%3Dnext_topic%26archive%3Dyes+discussions+%40+nikonians+%22reading+topic%22+site:nikonians.org+bclaff+do+not+cause+noise&hl=en


Google is neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.
These search terms have been highlighted: discussions nikonians reading topic bclaff do not cause noise 


Discussions @ Nikonians

Subject: "Higher ISOs do not cause noise" Archived thread - Read only
 
  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy    
Conferences NIKON PRODUCTS FORUMS D70/D70s Users Group Topic #4938
Reading Topic #4938
bclaff</b>donator_silver
Member since 26-Oct-04
2311 posts
20-Mar-05, 03:51 AM (GMT+2)
Click to EMail <b style=bclaff"> </b>Click to send private message to <b style=bclaff"> </b>Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"Higher ISOs do not cause noise"
 
   People who care about noise should understand that noise stems entirely from low levels of light and not from high ISOs.
The fact the high ISOs are "blamed" for noise is natural since we typically increase ISO to compensate for low levels of light; but it is the low levels of light that cause the noise, not the higher ISOs.

I've made this statement repeatedly in the forums and thought it was about time to offer some solid proof.

I shot 10 photographs of my standard "white" target at all ISOs and without changing any other settings.
I analyzed the raw data with a program that computes (among other things) signal strength, noise, and signal to noise ratio.

As expected, the signal strength is "perfectly" linear with respect to ISO.
This is because the amplifier between the CCD and the Analog to Digital converter is very clean and does not introduce any measurable noise.

As expected, the noise is also "perfectly" linear with respect to ISO.

Now you may be saying, "see, noise is higher at higher ISOs!"; but the noise is the same, it is only amplified at higher ISOs and appears larger.

The number that really matters is the signal to noise ratio.
Since the signal and noise are both "perfectly" linear with respect to ISO we can expect that the signal to noise ratio will be constant.

The slight variation in these values is statistically insignificant.
The dashed line is the average value and the dotted lines are 2 standard deviations above and below the average.

What does this mean?
It means we should not worry so much about increasing ISO when necessary.
And when we do increase the ISO we shouldn't "blame" the higher ISO for the noise.
Also, we know that long exposures have increased thermal noise; we should probably increase ISO instead of (or perhaps in conjuction with) increasing exposure times to over 1 second.

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: Nikon Photos and Information


  Printer-friendly page | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise el sargedonator_silver 20-Mar-05 1
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise stabone76 20-Mar-05 3
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 20-Mar-05 7
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 9
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise henrikstenback 22-Mar-05 39
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise serych 20-Mar-05 2
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Frenchiedonator_silver 20-Mar-05 4
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 8
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 20-Mar-05 5
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 10
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 12
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Virgil 20-Mar-05 6
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 11
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 13
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jsalcedodonator_gold 20-Mar-05 14
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise 1bradman 20-Mar-05 15
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 20-Mar-05 16
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 20-Mar-05 17
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 21-Mar-05 19
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Tony_Jeffreedonator_silver 22-Mar-05 31
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 21-Mar-05 18
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 21-Mar-05 20
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise GRE_D70 21-Mar-05 21
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise tndbrdonator_silver 21-Mar-05 22
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise 1bradman 21-Mar-05 23
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 21-Mar-05 24
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 21-Mar-05 25
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise neilxtdonator_silver 22-Mar-05 30
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 22-Mar-05 32
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 21-Mar-05 26
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise tndbrdonator_silver 22-Mar-05 27
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 22-Mar-05 28
                     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise andyradin 22-Mar-05 29
                         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise tndbrdonator_silver 22-Mar-05 33
                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Tony_Jeffreedonator_silver 22-Mar-05 34
                                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise tndbrdonator_silver 22-Mar-05 35
                                     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jsalcedodonator_gold 22-Mar-05 36
                                     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 22-Mar-05 37
                                         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Tony_Jeffreedonator_silver 22-Mar-05 38
                                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 22-Mar-05 40
                                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jimjamdonator_silver 23-Mar-05 42
                                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 43
                                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 44
                                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise serych 23-Mar-05 63
                                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 24-Mar-05 70
  Whoah, hang on a second here! bodhijoe 23-Mar-05 41
     RE: Whoah, hang on a second here! bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 45
         RE: Whoah, hang on a second here! BJNichollsdonator_silver 23-Mar-05 46
             RE: Whoah, hang on a second here! rleibfreid 23-Mar-05 47
                 low level of light causes the noise? 1bradman 23-Mar-05 50
                     RE: low level of light causes the noise? bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 53
             RE: Whoah, hang on a second here! jeremyrh 23-Mar-05 48
                 RE: Whoah, hang on a second here! bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 54
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise PointColvilledonator_silver 23-Mar-05 49
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 55
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Ryan Carssowdonator_silver 23-Mar-05 51
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 23-Mar-05 52
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 56
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Tony_Jeffreedonator_silver 23-Mar-05 57
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 58
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Tony_Jeffreedonator_silver 23-Mar-05 59
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 60
                     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Tony_Jeffreedonator_silver 23-Mar-05 61
                         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Frenchiedonator_silver 23-Mar-05 62
                             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise 1bradman 23-Mar-05 64
                                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 24-Mar-05 74
                     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise rleibfreid 23-Mar-05 66
                         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 23-Mar-05 67
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise rleibfreid 23-Mar-05 65
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise neilxtdonator_silver 24-Mar-05 68
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 24-Mar-05 69
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise neilxtdonator_silver 24-Mar-05 71
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise 1bradman 24-Mar-05 72
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 24-Mar-05 73
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 24-Mar-05 75
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise rleibfreid 24-Mar-05 76
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 24-Mar-05 77
                     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 25-Mar-05 78
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise dclarhornmoderator 25-Mar-05 79
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 25-Mar-05 80
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jsalcedodonator_gold 25-Mar-05 81
             RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Covey22moderator 25-Mar-05 86
                 RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 25-Mar-05 89
  RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jwenting 25-Mar-05 82
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jeremyrh 25-Mar-05 83
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise jwenting 25-Mar-05 85
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 25-Mar-05 90
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise AQS1974donator_silver 25-Mar-05 84
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 25-Mar-05 88
     RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise bclaff</b>donator_silver 25-Mar-05 87
         RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise Covey22moderator 28-Mar-05 91

Home | Conferences | Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
el sargedonator_silver
Member since 24-Oct-04
117 posts
20-Mar-05, 05:03 AM (GMT+2)
Click to EMail el%20sarge Click to send private message to el%20sarge Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: Higher ISOs do not cause noise"
In response to message #0
 
   this is an interesting analysis, bill.

recently i discovered this the hard way.
while at kearney, NE last week i forgot to decrease the ISO from 1600 once the sun had risen. below is a cropped (not resized) image. i had expected more grain at that speed!

Sarge.

Attachments
http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/User_files/

http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/User_files/423cf5f61a774ffe.jpg

  Printer-friendly page | Top
stabone76
Member since 9-Jan-05
273 posts
20-Mar-05, 08:02 AM (GMT+2)
Click to EMail stabone76 Click to send private message to stabone76 Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via AOL IM Click to send message via ICQ  
3. "RE: Higher ISOs do not cause n