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Subject: "How much backfocus is too much?" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences NIKON PRODUCTS FORUMS D70 Users Group Topic #5152
Reading Topic #5152
gfabbri
Member since 18-Jan-05
58 posts
02-Apr-05, 04:01 AM (GMT+1)
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"How much backfocus is too much?"
 
   I have about 1/2 to 3/4 inch backfocus using the kit lens at 70 mm wide open, focusing as close as I can get, using tripod, flash, and repeating the test a number of times.

I'm debating sending it in for service (purchased it in July, so still under warrantry, I think). On the one hand, it isn't as severe as some other examples I've seen, but on the other hand, it is disappointing.

Any advice? Anyone have experience with having this issue fixed? How long did it take?

Thanks for any responses -- I know this issue has been beaten to death, but I didn't find any old threads that addressed all of my questions.

-Gian


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
How much backfocus is too much? [View All] gfabbri 02-Apr-05 TOP
  RE: How much backfocus is too much? PolarBearing 02-Apr-05 1
  RE: How much backfocus is too much? bclaff 02-Apr-05 2
  RE: How much backfocus is too much? bclaff 02-Apr-05 3
     RE: How much backfocus is too much? gfabbri 04-Apr-05 4
         RE: How much backfocus is too much? bclaff 04-Apr-05 5
             RE: How much backfocus is too much? GRE_D70 04-Apr-05 6
                 RE: How much backfocus is too much? gfabbri 04-Apr-05 7
                     RE: How much backfocus is too much? bclaff 04-Apr-05 8
                 RE: How much backfocus is too much? gfabbri 05-Apr-05 9
                     RE: How much backfocus is too much? bclaff 05-Apr-05 10
                         RE: How much backfocus is too much? digitaljohn 07-Apr-05 11
                             RE: How much backfocus is too much? gfabbri 07-Apr-05 12
                                 RE: How much backfocus is too much? robbohnz 08-Apr-05 13

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PolarBearing
Member since 1-Jan-05
130 posts
02-Apr-05, 04:28 AM (GMT+1)
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1. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #0
 
   Gian, I've been performing focus tests over the last few days, and it almost seems intermittent with my 3 month-old D70. Mostly I've been performing Tim Jackson's D70 back-focus test, but the results are mixed with the three lenses I've used.

What I've been doing lately is to autofocus on a close object using a large aperture in good light, and fire a shot. Then I'll hit the manual focus switch and take several progressively de-focused shots (de-focusing towards the camera). In some tests it starts out slightly out of focus and gets progressively better, and in others it starts out great and then gets worse with each successive photo. I have a feeling that the distance to the focused object is a factor in this intermittent focusing problem, especially with the kit lens, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

Sorry I can't offer any info on how long a repair takes. I hope I don't have to find out.

Tony


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bclaff
Member since 26-Oct-04
1372 posts
02-Apr-05, 04:40 AM (GMT+1)
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2. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #0
 
   Gian,

You should double-check one thing.
Make sure you're using the center focus area!
Using top or bottom by accident will look like back focus.
Check page 66 of the manual if in doubt.

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70


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bclaff
Member since 26-Oct-04
1372 posts
02-Apr-05, 05:12 AM (GMT+1)
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3. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #0
 
   FWIW, here is an example of no back focus.

D70 with 18-70mm @70mm f/4.5 1/60th with built-in flash
subject distance 15inches, approximately 45degree angle
320x640 100% crop, no sharpening, adjusted contrast and brightness
Added small red dot at the center of the image.

BTW, at this distance and angle the top and bottom focus areas are about 1inch above/below the center.

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70


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gfabbri
Member since 18-Jan-05
58 posts
04-Apr-05, 03:41 PM (GMT+1)
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4. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #3
 
   Wish mine looked like that! My area of acceptable sharpness begins slightly behind the focus area and extends back from there, rather than including the actual focus point...

(and, yes, I was on single-area AF)

It's frustrating, but not the end of the world, I guess -- just will have to go back to film (or P&S) while my baby's in the shop.

-Gian


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bclaff
Member since 26-Oct-04
1372 posts
04-Apr-05, 04:58 PM (GMT+1)
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5. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #4
 
   Gian,

Just to double-check since you didn't say exactly.
You're not only on single-area AF but also are sure the center area is selected?

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70


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GRE_D70
Member since 6-May-04
90 posts
04-Apr-05, 05:21 PM (GMT+1)
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6. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #5
 
   Bill (and Gian),

Not to confuse matters, but i found that the actual focus sensors on mine are positioned to the upper left corner of the central focus brackets on the viewfinder. It doesn't make a huge difference, but when shooting at angled subjects the impression would be that i had slight back focus (if the subject was angled sloping upwards away from the camera).

I determined that my focus was spot-on by shooting at flat objects and viewing them at 100%.

Guy


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gfabbri
Member since 18-Jan-05
58 posts
04-Apr-05, 06:59 PM (GMT+1)
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7. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #6
 
   Yup, center area is locked and gives a nice red indicator in the viewfinder.

Regarding the upper-left placement of the actual sensor within the brackets, I'll have to shoot a flat target and see if that makes a difference -- there's a (very real) possibility taht I'm being too picky and blaming technique / subject shifting issues on the camera!

I heard that the backfocus issues were more prevalent with earlier serial numbers -- any reason to believe that Nikon changed something in later runs?

-Gian


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bclaff
Member since 26-Oct-04
1372 posts
04-Apr-05, 07:39 PM (GMT+1)
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8. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #7
 
   Gian (and Guy),

Yes, it's true that the focus areas as shown in the viewfinder can differ in any direction from the areas actually used; your mileage may vary

In my shot the large '8' to the left of the red dot was in the "center".
So my sensor seems to be slightly to the right of where you might expect.

Gian, try a shot similar to mine.
Use the built-in flash if necessary to shorten the exposure.
Take note of where you think the center is.
When you load the image you can locate the actual center.
They should be pretty close together.

The distances you initially reported were large enough that I suspected the wrong AF sensor was used rather than just a slightly shifted sensor.
But you say it is the correct sensor.

BTW, were you testing backfocus because you had images that came out wrong?

FWIW, whether there was ever a batch of cameras with backfocus problems is immaterial.
Either your camera is OK or it is not.

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70


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gfabbri
Member since 18-Jan-05
58 posts
05-Apr-05, 03:47 AM (GMT+1)
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9. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #6
 
   YES! Thank you for this insight. I retook test shots tonight with the kit lens & 50/1.8 and noted the apparent location of the top and bottom brackets of the center focus sensor.

In my shots, fully 1/2" of ruler fell between the brackets (the ruler was angled 45 degrees away from the camera). On each shot, the bottom bracket was not sharp, but the area beneath the top bracket was dead-on. It appeared that about 2/3 of the DOF fell above the top focus bracket vs. the 1/2 I expected, but now we're getting into minutia.

Lesson learned -- When using the center focus sensor, align the top bracket with the actual focus point.

Thanks to all.

-Gian

P.S. I'm upgrading my membership right away -- only a fraction of the value I've gleaned from this fab site!


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bclaff
Member since 26-Oct-04
1372 posts
05-Apr-05, 04:36 AM (GMT+1)
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10. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #9
 
   Gian,

Great!
FWIW, here is a 260x194 crop of the image in #3.
This is approximately the size of the center sensor in the viewfinder.

My viewfinder and sensor seem very close.
As you and Guy have shown, your mileage may vary

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70


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digitaljohn
Member since 21-Apr-04
23 posts
07-Apr-05, 02:48 PM (GMT+1)
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11. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #10
 
   Hee, I wonder can't that be the isue with many of those "backfocus" D70's? That the real focuspoint isnt there where you expect it to be?
John


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gfabbri
Member since 18-Jan-05
58 posts
07-Apr-05, 04:49 PM (GMT+1)
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12. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #11
 
   Probably is -- at least for those of us who diagnosed our backfocus with a faulty shoot-the-ruler test, instead of focusing on a perpendicular target!


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robbohnz
Member since 27-Mar-05
18 posts
08-Apr-05, 01:42 AM (GMT+1)
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13. "RE: How much backfocus is too much?"
In response to message #12
 
   I havent gotten around to doing it yet, but I reckon a better test would be a series of building blocks or dominos, arranged so the corners are touching, to give a staggered series of flat surfaces would be the best test.

FWIW, on my D70, I seem to get a number of front-focus issues on my 50mm @ f1.8 at close range. Often when I take closeish pics of my dog (but outside min focus distance), focusing on the eyes, her nose seems in better focus than the eyes, which look soft. Whereas my 80-210 seems SLIGHTLY backfocused in that the focus point is reasonably sharp, but anything right in front is OOF and the depth of field extends further back than I would expect. Its weird, seems to be different situations with different lenses.


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