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Discussions @ Nikonians

Subject: "D70 Spot Metering Spot Size" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences NIKON PRODUCTS FORUMS D70/D70s Users Group Topic #6295
Reading Topic #6295
bclaff</b>donator_silver
Member since 26-Oct-04
2266 posts
10-Jun-05, 04:14 AM (GMT+2)
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"D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
 
   I apologize in advance for a long post; this is a complicated subject

When the idea that the D70 spot metering spot size is larger than that specified first came to my attention my initial conclusion was that the spot size is as advertised.
Shortly afterwards, after a little more testing, I changed my mind and thought the spot to be about 50-100% larger than expected.
Now that I have performed a rigorous (to my standards) test; I have come full circle (pun intended ).

I shot a series of 48 images of a white circle on a black background ranging from 0mm to about 25mm in diameter (3.2mm as measured on the DX sensor).
All exposures were with the 18-70mm lens @70mm f/4.5 ISO 200, manual focused, on a tripod using Aperture priority and Spot Metering.

The area of each image was determined in Photoshop. This also provides the radius and diameter.

With all other factors being held constant, the Exposure Time is inversely proportional to the brightness as measured by the meter.

The smallest circle where exposure time started to stay constant was 2.68mm in diameter.

At first blush this would seem to indicate the spot is larger than the specified 2.3mm
However, this is a trap and is where I (and many) went astray.
The faulty assumption is that our test circles are perfectly centered on the metering spot.

The white circles are almost 9 stops brighter than the black background so we can treat the background as truly back.
Therefore as we increase the diameter of the test circles exposure should be the reciprocal of the area of the circle.

Here is the plot from my test data:

Notice there is a discontinuity in the data.
This is where the largest test circle that fit inside the spot touched the spot.
I marked this point with a cyan diamond.
I also marked the smallest circle that encloses the spot with a green diamond.

Discovering these two points, and some math, yields a 2.3mm spot; as advertised.
The following diagram may help to understand this:

In this diagram the black circle is the spot.
The red circle is for the cyan diamond.
And the blue circle is for the green diamond.
So apparently my test circles were centered .29mm from the true center of the spot.

In my initial test I was much further off because I used the center of the viewfinder for my test circles.
As it turns out the center of my center spot is lower.
The set of data used in this post is from test circles closer to the true center of the spot.

(My AF sensors are also low, so it's more than likely that my viewfinder is actually high!)

So the good news is that the spot metering spot is really 2.3mm in diameter...
The bad news is that it might not be where you think it is

Respectfully,
Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: Nikon Photos and Information


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size sixgun 10-Jun-05 1
     RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size Quin 10-Jun-05 2
         RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size bclaff</b>donator_silver 10-Jun-05 3
             RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size martstokes 10-Jun-05 4
                 RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size bclaff</b>donator_silver 11-Jun-05 5
                 RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size bclaff</b>donator_silver 11-Jun-05 6
  RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size bclaff</b>donator_silver 12-Jun-05 7

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sixgun
Member since 26-May-04
155 posts
10-Jun-05, 05:24 PM (GMT+2)
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1. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #0
 
   Wow, good stuff.


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Quin
Charter Member
67 posts
10-Jun-05, 07:29 PM (GMT+2)
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2. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #1
 
   Great stuff, Bill! Now, for question #2, is there a neat way of dertermining where the metered spot actually is?

Quin


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bclaff</b>donator_silver
Member since 26-Oct-04
2266 posts
10-Jun-05, 10:32 PM (GMT+2)
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3. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #2
 
   Quin,

To get within .29mm of the center I did the following.
I found the smallest white circle on black background that would register something other than "Lo" on the meter.
That circle was about 2.5mm in diameter (about .3mm on the sensor).
On my tripod I tilted and panned the D70 with 18-70mm lens at 70mm from about 16 inches away, Aperture priority at f/4.5
This tiny circle only measured other than "Lo" in a very small area.
I tried to choose the center of that area as the center for my test.
(In my case this is right at the bottom of the center AF sensor marking in my viewfinder)

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: Nikon Photos and Information


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martstokes
Member since 7-Apr-05
233 posts
10-Jun-05, 11:52 PM (GMT+2)
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4. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON 10-Jun-05 AT 11:56 PM (GMT 2)
 
Bill, let me just see if I get this, what you are saying is that the deviation in the graph is because parts of the circles recorded AFTER they touch the outer edge of the spot are in fact falling outside of the spot and are therefore giving a "false" reading? Your circle is now (say) 5 square mm in area BUT only (say) 4 square mm is falling inside and contributing to the metering? PRIOR to touching the outer edge, a circle is a circle is a circle and contributes the same, although offset?

Martin Stokes
Telford
England

It's all very well in practice, but how's it going to work in theory?


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bclaff</b>donator_silver
Member since 26-Oct-04
2266 posts
11-Jun-05, 03:05 AM (GMT+2)
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5. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #4
 
   Martin,

Yes.
In this case the test circles <= 1.72mm in diameter fell entirely within the spot.
But those test circles between 1.72mm and 2.88mm had portions outside of the spot.
(That's why the second line segment has a lower slope too.)

If fact, you've given me an idea that I'm going to check out.

More later.

Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: Nikon Photos and Information


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bclaff</b>donator_silver
Member since 26-Oct-04
2266 posts
11-Jun-05, 04:22 AM (GMT+2)
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6. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #4
 
   Martin,

In preparing post#5 I realized that the red dotted line, if extended, should intersect with the maximum 1/Time value at the Area for the Spot.
By choosing a different pair of cyan and green diamonds (there are several plausible pairs) I got an internally consistent result that cross checks of between 2.305mm and 2.345mm for the Spot diameter.
(Move the cyan diamond right 3 and the green diamond left 3).

On the second chart this would make the offset .19mm rather than .29mm
And the red and blue circle radii .96mm and 1.34mm respectively rather than .86mm and 1.44mm.

Perhaps I'll revise the charts and post new ones later during the weekend.

Thanks for making me think!
Cheers!
Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: Nikon Photos and Information


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bclaff</b>donator_silver
Member since 26-Oct-04
2266 posts
12-Jun-05, 03:10 AM (GMT+2)
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7. "RE: D70 Spot Metering Spot Size"
In response to message #0
 
   As promised in post#6 here are some revised diagrams and figures:

The open squares on this diagram are a second, more accurate set of data; based on ISO rather than Exposure Time.
(Rather cleverly gathered using ISO Auto in shutter priority at 1/125s)
(ISO Auto used 1/6EV increments )

Note that the blue dotted line is now curved, the original diagram was incorrect; this is correct.
The dotted cyan line, associated with the cyan diamond; is an extension of the dotted red line.
The dotted green line is horizontal at the level of the green diamond.
The cyan and green diamonds have been moved further apart because the placement error of the measuring circles is larger than I originally thought.
The cyan and green dotted lines intersect at the true Area of the Spot.

This diagram now shows the "advertised" spot as well as the measured spot which is slightly larger at 2.48mm versus 2.3mm
Given that even the second set of data is still only measured in 1/6EV this discrepancy might not be statistcally significant.

Respectfully,
Bill

Visit me, info and galleries at: Nikon Photos and Information


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