Colorado4x4 Forums: Mass Destruction in lefthand

This is topic Mass Destruction in lefthand in forum Land Use Issues at Colorado4x4 Forums.

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Posted by stuart (Member # 499) on September 30, 2003 07:08 PM :

I just got my colorado association paper today and in it was this letter.

Someone who trenched and bulldozed the road and destroyed over one hundred trees in the process destroyed the road out to Fairview peak in the lefthand network of roads. We are looking for anyone who has information or has seen any of this activity of damage that was done while 4-wheeling in the area.

If anyone has info email me at jjunkies1@comcast.com

Posted by BoulderBronco (Member # 1603) on September 30, 2003 07:25 PM :

Yeah, heard about that. What a &*$#@!* ^#*&@ $^@* *$& *%^hole.

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on September 30, 2003 07:25 PM :

Lefthand pics

Posted by coiledcj7 (Member # 1211) on September 30, 2003 07:31 PM :

Just a note I am apart of the colorado four wheel drive association and I have heard alot of times that boulder is going to close the area down and not let anyone 4-wheel in the lefthand canyon area or carnage canyon. All I can say is we realy need to be carefull at this time on what damage we do. The realy want to close the roads badly.

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on September 30, 2003 07:37 PM :

boulder would have a hard time since it is forest service land and they want it open

Posted by ahhjaws (Member # 1888) on September 30, 2003 09:35 PM :

Dang these people, thats just sick! Someone has to know something! I would think it would be obvious if something that big went up there.

Posted by Andy (Member # 1243) on September 30, 2003 09:40 PM :

Let me get this straight, they are looking for some who was four-wheeling and may have seen who did this right...

They're not trying to claim that this was done by four-wheeler's are they? That's insane! I think I can speak for all of us when I say I don't "wheel" a bulldozer and dynamite tree-trunks, this was somebody looking to block off a trail, not somebody blazing a one. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Butt Head (Member # 2073) on September 30, 2003 10:05 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy:
Let me get this straight, they are looking for some who was four-wheeling and may have seen who did this right...

They're not trying to claim that this was done by four-wheeler's are they? That's insane! I think I can speak for all of us when I say I don't "wheel" a bulldozer and dynamite tree-trunks, this was somebody looking to block off a trail, not somebody blazing a one.

Thats exactly what thier claiming.
http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

Posted by Malamute (Member # 164) on September 30, 2003 10:17 PM :

These people actually start to believe their own lies.

Just because they may not view "rock crawling" as a "family" activity doesn't mean others do not.

I get sick of assholes(environmentalists or otherwise) who think they should define what I or others enjoy to do.

I don't like granola, Birkenstocks or hugging baby seals, but I don't really care if others enjoy those things and persue them. Why is it these people want OHV's out of these areas so much? I honestly don't believe it has as much to do with the environment as they would like us to believe.

After reading that page you'd think Vernon was the devil. BTW, Vernon, I don't know if you'd call it lible, slander or what, but the words they print about you should not be taken lightly if they don't have some kind of proof.

Man these people really frustrate me.

Posted by Jmyrigdfj (Member # 181) on September 30, 2003 10:26 PM :

quote:
It is too early to make accusations about who did this

quote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2000, Vernon and his vigilantes destroyed dozens of trees on the Balarat Creek Ranch, and then tried to blame it on the owners.

WTF how can a writer make the first statement, and then follow up with the second statement????????? That article is rediculouse no wonder people look at 4wheelers in such a bad light with these kind of articles being written

Posted by ahhjaws (Member # 1888) on September 30, 2003 10:28 PM :

Keep us all updated guys!

Posted by Mr Zed (Member # 1524) on September 30, 2003 10:28 PM :

Freaky bunch of misinformation in that page...

Posted by Mcstiff (Member # 160) on October 01, 2003 12:44 AM :

I hate it when I am affected by other peoples personal problems with each other. I hope this "feud" does not cause the loss of more trails.

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 01:40 AM :

Oh man. I was already to go to sleep until I skimmed through that page. What fricking morons.

I'm not too experienced in this kind of stuff, but its kinda like going after Capone on tax evasion just to get him on something. They are using many pictures on their site and it is quite obvious the owner of that site is not the owner of said pic. Wouldn't the owners of said pics be able to use copyright laws to have those pics removed from that site since they are more than likely being used without permission from the owner of the photograph?

Posted by Mcstiff (Member # 160) on October 01, 2003 02:22 AM :

thats a great idea

Posted by Mystikal (Member # 379) on October 01, 2003 08:20 AM :

can it be proved though the true owner of the pictures?

Posted by xjSLATE (Member # 2569) on October 01, 2003 08:38 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Mystikal:
can it be proved though the true owner of the pictures?

BCC posted those pics a few weeks ago.

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 08:48 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Mystikal:
can it be proved though the true owner of the pictures?

The owner of the pic is the one who took the picture. Obviously that person would have to get involved, but it shouldn't be too hard to prove. It may take a lot of effort for a little results though, I really have no clue what it would take.

Posted by Breck4x4-John McCallister (Member # 1207) on October 01, 2003 08:52 AM :

just got back from Boslough (sp?) site, if you right click on the pic and select properties the pic is just a link to http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block4.jpg . Mark is not even smart enough to save the pic then upload it to his server. Since wee all know that Mark/Knobbybobby [Flipoff]

still lurks here the whole premise for the info on that site is stolen from here, just spun to refect badly on us.

edit- link corrected, still the same as right-clicking on pic @ Site and selecting properties.

[ October 01, 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Breck4x4-John McCallister ]

Posted by XJ-HIGHLANDER (Member # 1854) on October 01, 2003 09:21 AM :

Granolaville aka Boulder,

"Hmmmmmm, let's see here......to keep people out of this area we should DOZE down trees as to minimize enviromental impact."

Smart....

Bark Eatin Tree Hugger wannabe Hippies....

Posted by ImNotDave (Member # 2649) on October 01, 2003 09:23 AM :

If the pictures are copyrighted, yes, the owner can take legal action. If they're public domain (posted on the web without copyright), then the owner has no claim to them.

Posted by Mike Holmes (Member # 196) on October 01, 2003 09:25 AM :

vernon,

you are going to have one hell of a libel suit against knob bob when this is all over with. the fabrications he presents as facts will be his noose.

i PERSONALLY think knob bob did this. afterall " Sometimes eco-terrorism is o.k.," (according to the website). i am sure in his warped, crazier than a shithouse rat, mind he was justified.

MH

Posted by Murfman (Member # 441) on October 01, 2003 09:35 AM :

last link is not working!

Posted by Breck4x4-John McCallister (Member # 1207) on October 01, 2003 09:42 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Murfman:
last link is not working!

Link Corrected- [Flipoff2]

Posted by Yeeper (Member # 876) on October 01, 2003 09:45 AM :

Hey Vernon! This dude is totally slandering your name across the internet! Isn't that against the law!?

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 09:45 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by ImNotDave:
If the pictures are copyrighted, yes, the owner can take legal action. If they're public domain (posted on the web without copyright), then the owner has no claim to them.

Good point. I don't see anything on his site saying all pics are copyrighted and property of XYZ on there. Maybe BCC could provide some info for us, or possibly just change the file names so the remote hosting wont work anymore.

Posted by rich (Member # 435) on October 01, 2003 10:22 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Yeeper:
Hey Vernon! This dude is totally slandering your name across the internet! Isn't that against the law!?

Yeah, and anyone who's a member of this site is a "vigilante" according to them. Many of their links lead to here.

Posted by jumpinNrollin (Member # 783) on October 01, 2003 11:11 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by ImNotDave:
If the pictures are copyrighted, yes, the owner can take legal action. If they're public domain (posted on the web without copyright), then the owner has no claim to them.

Actually that is not quite true. Copyright law asumes that the copyright is granted at the time of creation. It does not actually take anything else unless you are going to try to prove the ownership. If you have an original and can prove it is an original and, is yours then that is all there is to it. Yes you can apply for a copyright but it does you no good as far as "proof". If another person can prove that it is their's they win copyright or not.

Posted by Trango (Member # 264) on October 01, 2003 11:15 AM :

This is libel, or written defamation, and is "actionable" under our legal system.

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and_slander/defamatory_statements.htm

Also, I cannot believe the hypocrisy and pure pathological lying that this "side" is presenting. Weird. All we want to do is drive on trails that don't get paved, which is often less harmful and intrusive to areas than paved roads. Why don't these people go blow up a tunnel on Boulder Canyon or something? If their motive is to stop people from accessing forest lands, that would surely be the strongest and most effective action around. And are they not aware that WE, not THEM, clean up trails? When I read this sort of fanatacism, it just shouts irrationality to me.

I'm so sorry, Vernon. These people have no honor, and are clearly delusional. I'm sorry that your name is their firebrand.

Bob

Posted by jumpinNrollin (Member # 783) on October 01, 2003 11:23 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:

quote:
Originally posted by ImNotDave:
If the pictures are copyrighted, yes, the owner can take legal action. If they're public domain (posted on the web without copyright), then the owner has no claim to them.
Good point. I don't see anything on his site saying all pics are copyrighted and property of XYZ on there. Maybe BCC could provide some info for us, or possibly just change the file names so the remote hosting wont work anymore.

Actually the "page" is copyrighted down at the bottom "Copyrighted 2001 Colorado 4X4.org". Changing the names would stop them for awhile until they noticed the names were changed and they get the new name. There are several things that can be done to limit the use of the pics but have to be done at the server level (hint: hsdata, cgi-bin files, name translation script and other means). Who ever took the pics can go after them and the CO4X4 site could also go after them for site content usage without permissions as it currently stands. Vernon, if it was me... this guy would get formally introduced to my attorney with a cease and disist order with a retraction and slander suit.

Posted by Mcstiff (Member # 160) on October 01, 2003 11:34 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by ImNotDave:
If the pictures are copyrighted, yes, the owner can take legal action. If they're public domain (posted on the web without copyright), then the owner has no claim to them.

Art it automatically copyrighted to the creator untill it is sold. Photography is art.

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on October 01, 2003 11:35 AM :

The photo used on his site belongs to my company, BCC. I have written the email below asking him to remove it.....and then some.

quote:
I notice on your site, http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html , you utilize a photo which is property of my company, Backcountry Colorado... http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block4.jpg. I am requesting that you remove the photo from your website. If, in the future, you wish to use photos belonging to me or Backcountry Colorado, simply contact me at the address below.

Just so you are aware of the situation up in the Fairview Peak area, I hiked the trail and found the felled trees and excavated ditches and then photographed them. The ONLY, I repeat ONLY reason for someone to destroy OUR PUBLIC forest and block posted USFS roads/trails in this manner is to prevent access to these areas. The USFS is currently conducting an investigation into this matter. Information I have received, from the MOST credible source, indicates that it was, in fact, done by someone OUTSIDE OF the local OHV/4-wheel drive community. Also, as a proponent of both OHV use and forest conservation (yes, they can in-fact be pursued concurrently), I find the information contained in your website quite biased and mis-leading.

Respectfully,

Ray Greco, owner
Backcountry Colorado
www.Back-CountryColorado.com

Posted by hjeepxj (Member # 1270) on October 01, 2003 11:45 AM :

dang man! this site: http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

makes us sound like we are a gorrilla warfare army

I bet some stupid wannabe hippies did this, trying to prevent us from wheeling there, when in reality, they have nothing to hug anymore! [Big Grin]

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 11:56 AM :

Ray,
Well put in your email/letter. Strong enough to get your point across, but not antagonistic(sp??). Let us know if you hear back from them!

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 11:58 AM :

Checked the rest of the pics on the page and they're all hosted on HoboJeepers or MHJC sites. If someone from those organizations could send a similar notice as Ray to these dorks that might help too.

EDIT: only the pics involving four-wheeling are hosted on these sites, but without those pics that site loses its effect entirely.

[ October 01, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Big Dave ]

Posted by Breck4x4-John McCallister (Member # 1207) on October 01, 2003 12:03 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Backcountry Colorado:
The photo used on his site belongs to my company, BCC. I have written the email below asking him to remove it.....and then some.

quote:
I notice on your site, http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html , you utilize a photo which is property of my company, Backcountry Colorado... http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block4.jpg. I am requesting that you remove the photo from your website. If, in the future, you wish to use photos belonging to me or Backcountry Colorado, simply contact me at the address below.

Just so you are aware of the situation up in the Fairview Peak area, I hiked the trail and found the felled trees and excavated ditches and then photographed them. The ONLY, I repeat ONLY reason for someone to destroy OUR PUBLIC forest and block posted USFS roads/trails in this manner is to prevent access to these areas. The USFS is currently conducting an investigation into this matter. Information I have received, from the MOST credible source, indicates that it was, in fact, done by someone OUTSIDE OF the local OHV/4-wheel drive community. Also, as a proponent of both OHV use and forest conservation (yes, they can in-fact be pursued concurrently), I find the information contained in your website quite biased and mis-leading.

Respectfully,

Ray Greco, owner
Backcountry Colorado
www.Back-CountryColorado.com

Hopefully this will curtail the some of the assault on Vernon & MHJC.
The idea that anyone who uses this area for recreation was behind the destruction/blocking of the trail is asinine. [Mad]

Good Luck Ray [Thumbsup]

John

Posted by Trango (Member # 264) on October 01, 2003 01:33 PM :

I would also forward that email to the ISP, since they are providing a harbor for your stolen photographs.

Posted by hjeepxj (Member # 1270) on October 01, 2003 02:05 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Trango:
I would also forward that email to the ISP, since they are providing a harbor for your stolen photographs.

good idea!

[Bounce]

Keep us updated boys!

Posted by SSII (Member # 29) on October 01, 2003 02:14 PM :

Well, it sure as hell looks like to me that Vern and the Mile High Jeep Club has a couple of legs to stand on for a Slander suit. Get them! That crap I read was nothing but B.S. [Mad]

Posted by SNOWMAN (Member # 1822) on October 01, 2003 02:23 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by SSII:
Well, it sure as hell looks like to me that Vern and the Mile High Jeep Club has a couple of legs to stand on for a Slander suit. Get them! That crap I read was nothing but B.S.

We wish it was that easy. Pursueing a suit like that costs alot of money. [Frown]

Trango has a good point about the pics though. I'm sure that would be a relatively free angle to grind. Good thing he's got his thinkin fro on. haha.

Posted by Pioneer (Member # 2365) on October 01, 2003 02:59 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by SSII:
Well, it sure as hell looks like to me that Vern and the Mile High Jeep Club has a couple of legs to stand on for a Slander suit. Get them! That crap I read was nothing but B.S.

This is by far the best option! This would be a class action suit considering it characterizes the entire 4-wheeling community! The Mile Hi Jeep Club would be intitled to the largest amount if any considering they are the most bashed in that article. They say that the wheeling community is just a bunch of high priced pricks in highly modified vehicles! I think that most of the members of this board would be offended by the comments stated on that web sight. But slander and depravation of character are the first that come to mind. As for chasing down ISP's over pictures is a waste of time IMHO. There is enough photos of 4X4's on the entire web to keep his sight going for years. If everyone that is or was offended or characterized in a fashion that is false and or causes harm (physical or emotional) would be part of a class action suit. If those people all got together and paid say $100 each that would be more than enough to pay for any suit! The owner of that site claims to be a native of more then 100 years and is a good ol boy with little money (at least that is the way I read it) and would not be able to finacialy handle a court battle and would be forced to close his site or re-write it with the truth! But it will come down to the first amendment "freedom of speech" but his comments are clearly slanderous and incorrect, we would just have to prove that. That wouldn't be that hard to prove!

Posted by honney (Member # 310) on October 01, 2003 03:33 PM :

I find it funny that they bash Vernon and others for encouraging "unstacking" rocks, saying this practice prevents access to the elderly and ranchers who own the land, but then they clearly want roads closed to OHV users.

So, which is it? Stack rocks so all can access, or close roads to the "evil" OHV recreationists? Maybe Knobby would stop fighting Barking Dog if we promised to stack lots of rocks [Laugh]

The pictures of the alleged oil spill crack me up, they're just pictures of Jeeps sitting on the trail. They prove nothing.

Also the pic at the bottom of Greg Mackey with his front end in the air proves nothing; I guess they're trying to convince soccer moms we're all reckless (not that that picture conveys anything reckless IMO, and certainly less dangerous than that same soccer mom talking on the cell phone while her kids roughhouse in the back of her Yukon on I-25).

As for the pics, you guys are nit-picking and showing the eco-freaks they can get a rise out of us/you. Just change the link to the pics, that'll throw 'em off and be more comical. Their nifty website can come up with a bunch of red X's (since they're not smart enough to save the pics to their own server).

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 03:36 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by honney:

As for the pics, you guys are nit-picking and showing the eco-freaks they can get a rise out of us/you. Just change the link to the pics, that'll throw 'em off and be more comical. Their nifty website can come up with a bunch of red X's (since they're not smart enough to save the pics to their own server).

Light Bulb!!

<edited to remove an idea that needs to be kept private/confidential>

[ October 01, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Big Dave ]

Posted by Mike Holmes (Member # 196) on October 01, 2003 03:55 PM :

<editted to go along with big dave's idea>

[ October 01, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Mike Holmes ]

Posted by gmule (Member # 1264) on October 01, 2003 04:00 PM :

Message deleted

[ October 01, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: gmule ]

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 01, 2003 04:02 PM :

D'OH!!! I'll edit it out. BCC, I'm shooting you a PM regarding my post that I will soon be editing for content.

Posted by Pioneer (Member # 2365) on October 01, 2003 04:05 PM :

Mile hi needs to change the pics, Backcoutry Colorado needs to change the pics! If you guys change the pics he has no ammo!!

Posted by Mike Holmes (Member # 196) on October 01, 2003 04:12 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:
D'OH!!! I'll edit it out. BCC, I'm shooting you a PM regarding my post that I will soon be editing for content.

i was hoping you would see my reply quickly and edit your message and send a PM instead. great idea. [Big Grin]

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 01, 2003 05:17 PM :

i think that some of you are closer to the truth then you might think
at this point i feel really bad for boshlough and his family. he obviously has a bad problem. as far as a suit. which cost less liable or the road is public. in this country and boulder in particular, it is not about whats right or just, it is about who has the most money. at more then 200/hour a lawyer to chase after either is outa my legue and boslough the lier knows it. doesnt bother me a whole lot since he and i both know that he is wrong.(just a reminder to all includeing mark. i sat in an office with this clown and his brother and their lawyer, by the end of the day they were all setin perty low in the saddle and not a one of them had any doubt that the road was public and that if i ended up in front of a judge with my information that the judge would rule that way also. in fact i told his lawyer to show me just one item that would show that the road was not public and his lawyer could not. from that point on they have made as many motions as they could to stay clear of a court hearing in the case that they are in right now,not to mention leaning on an elderly man that just wants access) it just gets to him so badly that he has gone off the deep end. the news paper articles are nothing more then his side and total bias from the news folks since none of em talk with me.(hes looking for public oppinion and lieing to get the sympathy he seeks.) and the ones that have have choosein not to even quote me correctly. it all too obvious to all that this is very personal and getting more so with him on a dayly bases. how much time do you spoze he devotes to this will being paid by taxpayer funds?

just a little heads up mark---- it was 6 months ago that i posted the equipment needed for the removal of your illegal obstructions not a couple days prior to the dammage up at fairview and from what i understand the damage acured musch earlier then my post reinterating that i was going to use a backhoe and not a bulldozer (your and idiot !!)
btw all i find it funny that sunday a friend asked me if i had been acused yet. i wont tell you the possition of the friend but the laughter is perty sweet.
the more time passes and this boslough clown keeps it up the less credable he is . he has totally ruined any believability he had with most of the folks that mean something up there.
if i could inlist the help of the group id like to continue to raise funds to get in front of a judge on the barking dog issue. paypal is set up under brandtv@wwdb.org
checks can be sent to po box 97 windsor co 80550 and made out to john henderson (the lawyer)
i would appreciate the help to the end that the road is again usable by us all.
mhjc btw has stuff in the works to take boslough to court for liable /slander/cry baby stuff
so sad that they wont put that money toward the rod case. all they care is that folks "think" that mile high is "good" they have left me high and dry- in fact i liken it to we walked up to a cliff with the agreement that we would both go over and then the said "jump" i jumped and they stayed safe on the top of the cliff.
btw mark dues were due in june and i have not even been a member since june. in other words i was asked by members of the club to join around sept/oct of last year and payed for a full year which was up in may. just looks like someone has not updated that page but i assue you that gregg/maxx/neil disconnected me from the club site as soon as they got the chance. i had offer to report on the state and cohvco meetings since at the time a had the time available to attend those. i have never been a rep of cohvco. i attend their meetings and support them where i can
so go back and re edit your site yet again. its amazeing how often mark has to go back and change the places that hes wrong. which of course sould further call his credability to question
as for my credability mark. the rangers and the sheriff and the folks at the county that i have dealt with know that i would never do the damage that was done up at fairview without first makeing sure that i had the legal right to do it. unlike the person that will spend time in federal prison for the work done on fairview
and just a reminder---- i am going to remove all of your obstructions and drive on the road knows as barking dog/balarat road/county road 87
ill post the pictures for you also
THE ROAD IS A PUBLIC ROAD

[ October 01, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 01, 2003 05:43 PM :

btw mark
who in their right mind would even come up with the idea that on one side of a hill that i would go through so much for a public road and then on the other side of the same hill that i would do all that damage to close off a public road?
please reserface and conect those dots for us.
i have no doubt i my mind that you yourself had something to do with all the damage up on fairview. not sure if you drove the trachoe but i know that you are being looked at very hard for your involvement in this.

Posted by ahhjaws (Member # 1888) on October 01, 2003 06:11 PM :

I'd help out any way I could finacially or otherwise.

Posted by Hobo Willy (Member # 95) on October 01, 2003 08:17 PM :

FYI: [Mad]

I posted the Barking Dog trip report way back in June of 1999. It was actually my 1st report posted on our site (I have done over 200 since then,,,see our sitemap). All we (HoboJeepers) did--was attend the trip, and I did a report on it. I have been the webmaster since 99.

I dispise the fact that they are using our patrol logo from our site (this is our own site, not part of MHJC's website--even though we are Patrol 1 in the club). Also, the fact he is linking both photos off my site. [Mad2]

I once changed some text to reflect what we did in the field (what really happened at the trail fix----repair of oil plug and cleanup of <1/4 or less of oil & hauled away). Obviously, it's not conveved that way, or stated on his site. He ended up saying I was trying to 'cover up' by changing my story. He copied the original text.

I could change my photos, but I would have to change alot of pages too. He would just come back and say 'see, they are hiding something'. As he does copies the pages. I have always had a copyright--see at bottom of main page: web page --on the website since it started.

BC, if he removes your photo--tell me, I will send him an email too, to remove mine (which are copy righted.

PS: watch what you say here--Knobby is listening (and uses this site on his webpage (as you have seen).

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 01, 2003 09:32 PM :

bill
welcome to my world!!!!! ive been chastized before for mentioning that we are watched. these folks here for the most part have no idea how many others watch this place. i certainly would not worry too much about it though.
these types like boslough care nothing for the truth and no matter what is said they will make up what they want.boslough has shown that in every thing hes ever done.
your site is just fine.

Posted by Malamute (Member # 164) on October 01, 2003 09:36 PM :

Vernon,

Times are tight for everyone, I know that, but some more $$$ is headed your way soon from me. Hopefully everyone on this board can find at least 5 bucks to send(we all should be able to pull that off). Simply miss one M & G, or don't buy that 12 pack after work tomorrow, whatever, it's worth the sacrifice to keep this fight funded. Think with the number of members on this board if everyone would just throw in $5, that would go a long way towards funding this.

I hope whoever did this realizes not only the damage they have caused, but how they may have re-vitalize our efforts to support Vernon's fight(all our fight really). This may have been very counter-productive for these people.

Again Vernon, how do the people responsible for this site get away with saying the things they say?

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 01, 2003 09:36 PM :

btw mark his brother nor his wife carw anything for the law either. they think they are above it and dictate it for us small folks. and unless there is money behind the threats id bet he'll continue to do what he wants -copywrite or none

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 01, 2003 09:41 PM :

malamute
i would bet that the boslough would try to cry first amendment rights. their intire deal is predacted on the idea that noone has the funds to prove them wrong. unfortunatly these folks can say all the lies they want and its up to the ones lied about to fix it.

thanks for the support

[ October 01, 2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

Posted by Rhyas (Member # 433) on October 01, 2003 09:57 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Hobo Willy:
FYI:

I could change my photos, but I would have to change alot of pages too. He would just come back and say 'see, they are hiding something'. As he does copies the pages. I have always had a copyright--see at bottom of main page: web page --on the website since it started.

BC, if he removes your photo--tell me, I will send him an email too, to remove mine (which are copy righted.

There's not really a large leg to stand on there legally, because he's not copying the image, he's mearly linking to it. Best bet is to change the name if the actual image file, or restrict it based on HTTP_REFERER.

By far the best thing to do though, would be to put some sort of script in there, that plugged one image when referenced from his sites, and the normal one when referenced from anywhere else. [Big Grin]

-= Jay =-

Posted by Ingvae (Member # 459) on October 02, 2003 03:04 AM :

Just change the pics to something else. Something completely inappropriate to his website. Make his website look like $h!t.

Posted by Ingvae (Member # 459) on October 02, 2003 03:06 AM :

BTW

Click on the barking dog link in my profile to make a PayPal donation on Vernon's behalf.

Come on what's $5 and what could be easier than clicking below.

Posted by flexychevy (Member # 5) on October 02, 2003 05:33 AM :

Where is the article of him bashing Vernon and the rest of us?
This guy sounds like another waste of oxygen.Some people feel better tearing the world a part.They like to stir things up,because they have no life.I hope you are reading this you [Barf]

they will catch you [Flipoff]

I hope it is soon. [Mad2]

Posted by Eric Cheezer (Member # 926) on October 02, 2003 06:30 AM :

http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

Posted by jeepinaround (Member # 102) on October 02, 2003 06:52 AM :

Well he isn't using one photo from Backcountry Colorado he has it scrolling through all of the photos and they now have Backcountry Colorado on the photo. It also has been updated with more links here since yesterday.

Posted by Eric Cheezer (Member # 926) on October 02, 2003 08:18 AM :

FYI, He's linking directly to this thread.

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 08:52 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Ingvae:
Just change the pics to something else. Something completely inappropriate to his website. Make his website look like $h!t.

We had already discussed that, thats what me and Mike's posts that were edited talked about. Obviously it's a little too late, but BCC did change the pic to include his company name that is now being used on the site. Shouldn't be too hard to prove that one's his.

It's been said already, but I think it's time for Hobo's, BCC, and MHJC to contact Comcrap about their server being used to illegally host pics.

Posted by Pioneer (Member # 2365) on October 02, 2003 08:54 AM :

Just pull the pics and put up that pic of Critters rear diff [Laugh2]

Or just rewrite the address, so he can't use them! Hey Vernon I didn't know you were into mudboggin [Roll Eyes]

[ October 02, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 09:09 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Pioneer:
Just pull the pics and put up that pic of Critters rear diff Or just rewrite the address, so he can't use them!

He's already saved at least BCC's to his own server.

Posted by Pioneer (Member # 2365) on October 02, 2003 09:11 AM :

When the hell did he do that? Yesterday they were on Backcountrys site!

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 09:18 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Pioneer:
When the hell did he do that? Yesterday they were on Backcountrys site!

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on October 02, 2003 09:42 AM :

OK, not only did he fail to reply to my email, he went and did a bad, bad thing. I don't think he realizes that I am serious here. Latest email below.

quote:
Not only did you fail to respond to my first email, but you blatantly and inappropriately modified photos which are property of my company, Backcountry Colorado. You did not so much as give photo credit. You now have until Monday, Oct. 6th, 2003 to remove the photos from you website. If these photos are not removed, I will submit my dated prints of these pilfered photos to my lawyer and have a cease and desist order drawn up against you, Balarat Ranch and Comcast. I do not appreciate nor condone the fact that you are using Backcountry Colorado's property to slander and accuse my associates. You are not dealing with a 'renegade-mud-boggin-yahoo' here. I am an educated, well-versed, well-connected, well-to-do member of the OHV/4-wheel drive community. I will not allow you to continue to target me, my company nor my fellow OHV users in the manner you are, with my own property. Again, you have until Monday Oct. 6th, 2003 to comply with my request. If the images are not removed, you WILL face legal action.

Ray Greco, owner
Backcountry Colorado
www.Back-CountryColorado.com

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 09:44 AM :

[Thumbsup]

Way to be Ray!

Posted by Pioneer (Member # 2365) on October 02, 2003 09:50 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:

Way to be Ray!

Yee-haw

I LOVE IT!!!!!!! [Big Grin]

Now you just need to get MHJC and HOBO to do the same!!! [Bounce]

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on October 02, 2003 09:56 AM :

I just finished contacting Comcast indicating my intentions and recent actions. Since it is hosted on their servers, they may take action against him. Especially since I mentioned adding them to the cease and desist order.

Posted by Camp (Member # 496) on October 02, 2003 10:09 AM :

VB,

I am going to paypal after this is posted to make my contribution to the Barking Dog issue. I would like to help in anyway I can on this but, my capacity will be limited for the next 5 or 6 months as I will be out of the country. I have sat back and watched this issue long enough. The lack of morals by the accusing party absolutely baffle me. How does a person who tells such blatent lies sleep at night.

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 10:20 AM :

Just sent some $ via paypal as well. I can't afford much right now, but I know every little bit helps.

Posted by jeepinaround (Member # 102) on October 02, 2003 10:29 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Pioneer:
When the hell did he do that? Yesterday they were on Backcountrys site!

Sometime between last night and now they were switched. He reads this board pretty frequently and like Cheezer said this thread is now linked from the site.

Mr. Jackass, if you're reading this thread, [/QUOTE]
It was this morning, he had been scrolling through all the pictures on Backcountry's site now they are on his server. Also the link to this thread has been blocked! [Flipoff]

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 10:35 AM :

All the links I could find from that site to threads over here have been blocked. If you had a hand in that Eric, way to be!! [Beer]

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 02, 2003 10:37 AM :

Awww...., his remote links no longer workie [Laugh2]

Backcountry, you might want to consider blocking remote-linking of your images (also referred to as bandwidth stealing). I've been thinking of doing that here as well.

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 02, 2003 10:38 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:
All the links I could find from that site to threads over here have been blocked. If you had a hand in that Eric, way to be!!

Aren't I a stinker [Big Grin]

Posted by Yeeper (Member # 876) on October 02, 2003 10:39 AM :

Taken from Mark Boslough's article:

Just a few days before the recent vandalism on Fairview Peak, Vernon publicly threatened to take a backhoe to another local landowner's property. Vernon Brandt solicited help from other vigilantes.
He even specified the kind of heavy equipment he planned to use. We urge the U.S Forest Service to investigate Vernon Brandt.

Quote from Vernon Brandt on Colorado 4x4:

for all those that would like to help remove the obstructions and run the road please send me a personal email
*e-mail add. edited*
include your phone number

call your reps
call the boulder rangers

Am I missing something? VB's statement was taken from a link on Mr. Boslough's article. Where does it say ANYTHING about bulldozing someone elses property? If you read closely, VB was trying to enlist help to remove obstructions from a trail, so that it was passable! After "someone" had torn down trees and moved boulders to prevent passage! Gee, I wonder who was involved in that destruction.

Lies beget lies! And destroying the forest so that OHV enthusiasts cannot enter is EXTREMELY selfish, and narrow minded, and totally against what this fool is aguing about!

DUH! Let's save the forest by destroying it!? What kind of plan is that!?

To me, this makes about as much sense as burning your own house down to prevent burglury

Posted by Yeeper (Member # 876) on October 02, 2003 10:42 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:
All the links I could find from that site to threads over here have been blocked. If you had a hand in that Eric, way to be!!
Aren't I a stinker

Right on!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 11:28 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
Awww...., his remote links no longer workie

Hey Eric, a couple of us are having problems accessing the site now since you disabled those links. Any advice on how to avoid that?

Posted by Pioneer (Member # 2365) on October 02, 2003 11:30 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
Awww...., his remote links no longer workie

Hey Eric, a couple of us are having problems accessing the site now since you disabled those links. Any advice on how to avoid that?

Ya what he said!! I had to go and delete all temp internet files and cookies before I got permission to come back!

Posted by Breck4x4-John McCallister (Member # 1207) on October 02, 2003 11:31 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:

quote:
Originally posted by Big Dave:
All the links I could find from that site to threads over here have been blocked. If you had a hand in that Eric, way to be!!
Aren't I a stinker

yes you are! way to go [Thumbsup]

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 02, 2003 11:39 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Pioneer:
Hey Eric, a couple of us are having problems accessing the site now since you disabled those links. Any advice on how to avoid that?
Ya what he said!! I had to go and delete all temp internet files and cookies before I got permission to come back!

Sounds like you were viewing a cached version of the link/page. If you're using IE go to Tools / Internet Options and click Settings under the Temporary Internet Files section. Under "Check for newer versions of stored pages:" select "Every visit to the page" and click OK (see pic).

If using a different browser you'll need to look at your settings for similar cache settings that govern how often the cache is updated.

[ October 02, 2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Eric ]

Posted by COGrand (Member # 2803) on October 02, 2003 11:46 AM :

My 2 cents......Does anyone have info on the a$$ hat that used Ray's photos on the site? It wouldn't be far fetched that these people are the ones who tore up the Lefthand trails and are attempting steer the investigation in "our" direction. ???

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 02, 2003 11:47 AM :

Mark Boslough owns that website. I don't know if he is responsible for the Lefthand Canyon vandalism or not, but he is clearly trying to use it to his advantage.

Posted by COGrand (Member # 2803) on October 02, 2003 12:05 PM :

I did some looking around and found out what you just posted. He obviously has the means of doing the damage that was done in Lefthand.

"Mark Boslough, a physicist who lives in New Mexico, owns some of the land bisected by what the Jeepers call the Barking Dog Road. In 1999, Boslough erected no-trespassing signs to keep the ORVs out. (He allows hikers on the trail.) The signs were torn down. SO BOSLOUGH DROPPED LARGE BOULDERS AND TREES OVER THE TRAIL"
--This is from the Boulder Daily Camera article about the situation on Barking Dog.

Posted by Camp (Member # 496) on October 02, 2003 12:12 PM :

Pony up fella's. Let's get VB the funds to fight this problem legally and respectably.

Posted by 79CJLongmont (Member # 446) on October 02, 2003 12:19 PM :

hmmm... It ain't legal, so I'd never do it, but my background is in computers. I am quite sure I could hack some systems if I tried. Wanna see this guy disappear!?

I'D NEVER DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IT IS ILLEGAL AND I DON'T CONDONE IT!

[Wink]

Posted by Grandpa Jeep (Member # 47) on October 02, 2003 12:21 PM :

Boslough certainly sounds like the prime candidate to me. Think about it, his court case isn't going too well, so he blocks off a trail and then publicly blames Vernon Brandt for it. He knows Vernon is having trouble raising funds to continue the fight. Perhaps he's hoping he can land VB in some legal trouble.

Does Boslough own equipment that can do this? How far is this from Boslough's property? According to what CO_Grand found, he either used his own equipment or rented some to block barking dog Rd. Has anyone checked equipment rental places to see if anyone rented anything capable of doing this damage? Is the Forest Service the only agency investigating this crime? Perhaps someone needs to steer them towards Mark Boslough.

Posted by COGrand (Member # 2803) on October 02, 2003 12:30 PM :

In the event anyone would like to contact Mark:

Sandia National Laboratories
http://www.sandia.gov
BOSLOUGH,MARK B. E.
(505)845-8851
MBBOSLO@sandia.gov
Kirtland Air Force Base (KAFB), in southeastern Albuquerque mailstop: 0318

This is asumming that this is the same Mark Boslough. As stated in the article, Mark is a "physicist" in New Mexico. So, this is most likely him.

This info is posted as free information on the web.

I do find it interesting that a guy who's career centers on developing Nuclear weapons to incinerate people and destroy massive amounts land is fighting a small group of four-wheelers over some trails in Colorado. Go figure. I guess that's why he doesn't live in Boulder. :-)

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 02, 2003 01:10 PM :

I doubt he develops nuclear weapons - the information above points to the wrong group and wrong laboratory to be doing that - very few of the national laboratory employees have anything to do with nuclear weapons research, even if they are physicists.

Sorry about the rant - but after growing up in Los Alamos and having to put up with the disinformation about the labs and ignorance of all the rest that they do and accomplish for us on a daily basis, I get set off sometimes.

This in no way stands up for Mark, or anything he has done, I don't think I could stand to be in the same room with him, I would be torn between vomiting and laughing hysterically.

edit - after doing some research and checking out several published studies and works that Mark helped with, it appears he is probably a Geo physicist. All this is really too bad, actually, as it looks like he is quite intelligent and would have been very interesting to have a conversation with. His tactics and lack of morals around the Barking dog issue and OHV enthusiast in general make the thought of an "intelligent" conversation with this man quite revolting.

[ October 02, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: bsaunder ]

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on October 02, 2003 01:21 PM :

I just emailed his Sandia email addy, in case he 'did not get' my emails to the Balarat site......

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 02, 2003 01:23 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by bsaunder:
Sorry about the rant - but after growing up in Los Alamos and having to put up with the disinformation about the labs and ignorance of all the rest that they do and accomplish for us on a daily basis, I get set off sometimes.

I'll bet they have aliens there though, probably a flying saucer or two as well. Nuthin' but top-secret conspiracy going on in those think tanks. Hey, maybe they zapped these trees with one of the ray guns they recovered from aliens. Come awn Ben, you know they gotta have aliens! [Big Grin]

[ October 02, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Eric ]

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on October 02, 2003 01:24 PM :

For those having problems accessing the site, simply open the page, right click on it, then hold the shift button and hit refresh at the same time, clears the cache and refreshes page.

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 02, 2003 01:32 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:

I'll bet they have aliens there though, probably a flying saucer or two as well. Nuthin' but top-secret conspiracy going on in those think tanks. Hey, maybe they zapped these trees with one of the ray guns they recovered from aliens. Come awn Ben, you know they gotta have aliens!

I...um...err... can not confirm nor deny any reference to said aliens or the existance of said ray guns or flying apparati.....

[Flipoff2]

Posted by Big Dave (Member # 20) on October 02, 2003 01:35 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by bsaunder:

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:

I'll bet they have aliens there though, probably a flying saucer or two as well. Nuthin' but top-secret conspiracy going on in those think tanks. Hey, maybe they zapped these trees with one of the ray guns they recovered from aliens. Come awn Ben, you know they gotta have aliens!

I...um...err... can not confirm nor deny any reference to said aliens or the existance of said ray guns.....

[independance day] well, thats not EXACTLY correct sir [/independance day]

Always loved that line!!

Anyways, I wheeled with a guy who worked for Sandia a few years ago. I'm gonna see if I can dig up his email to see if maybe he knows this guy.

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 02, 2003 01:57 PM :

BTW - let’s not waste too much energy finding out about Mark. We most definitely do not need to start making up stuff about him or trying to slander him in anyway. We do not need to stoop to that level, even if others do.
Lets rather focus on helping the FS anyway we can to help find the vandals that destroyed Federal land and pursuing all legal means of keeping public land open to the public.

Posted by Phazertwo A.K.A Brenden (Member # 2793) on October 02, 2003 04:50 PM :

What about clearing the trail, what is the latest one that? What can we do, or does the FS not want us to clear it (investigation thing). But I would like to clear it, it would be fun... Get to meet all you guys, now is a good time of year, before the snow flies and it gets cold...

My auto tec class has a 4x4 kinda club of there own, including the instructor, and it sounds like they wanna go help clear

Posted by ColoradoGrand (Member # 2950) on October 02, 2003 05:45 PM :

How is it a waste of energy to find out a little about this guy? He could very well be behind bulldozing Lefthand Canyon. He's already admitted to moving boulders, etc. into the middle of the trail at Barking Dog. He's obviously got the means and motive to do it. Why not redirect the focus onto "us" and claim "we" are responsible? I don't think investigating the guy is wasteful in the least bit.

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 02, 2003 08:53 PM :

bosloughs property is on county road 87. the damage to lefthand is on county road 87j. there is one hill between the areas and all dirt roads. boslough is known by the nieghbors up there and several of them have the exact equipment that did the damage. like i said he is being looked at for this damage and im thinkin he is involved. to what extent i guess we just have to wait and see.
mark does meteors (sp). and bashes God an a regular basis as part of his job.
you are correct his actions show that he has no internal govner to control him so of course is unable to tell any diferance between a lie and the truth. im sure that the only thing that keeps him from sleeping at night is that hes wrong and cant lie well enough to make others think that hes right.
can you emagine being married to this guy or even working with him?? youd never ever know if you could trust a thing he says.
as for his site:
there are so many things in it that contridict each other and are just plain redicules to all but the most gulable. the proof is in the fact that he needs us to help him with his constent rewrites. what a clown
btw if any of you have a printer please make a copy of his site every once in awhile so that we have a way to document all of the facts that change there
as for the mud boggin: i think he says that to conjur up images in folks minds of the kbpi thing up by caribu. i wonder why he stoped claiming to also be a four wheeler him self as he used to claim

[ October 02, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 02, 2003 09:00 PM :

btw the stuff on left hand is still a crime scene so lets let the fs do their job. there is an area of the damage that i would like to remove and believe that it can be done under the same laws that alow for the removel of bosloughs obsticles. im going to wait for alittle more info and for the fs to do their thing if youd like to help with that let me know back chanel.
as for barking dog : the obsticles can be remove by the public at any time . the only thing is that the public needs to stay on the road at all times . the property on either side for 2.5 miles is private property for the most part. noone wants to see a tresspass deal. even if the sheriff is called all he will do is take pictures and names for his report

Posted by flexychevy (Member # 5) on October 03, 2003 05:24 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
Awww...., his remote links no longer workie

Backcountry, you might want to consider blocking remote-linking of your images (also referred to as bandwidth stealing). I've been thinking of doing that here as well.

I just went to his site to read his mumbo jumbo and his links are still working.You might want to take another look at it.Also has anyone thought about going to the News or paper to put this B.S> out there.It good in two ways,one it shows how are so lovely tree huggers are and put a message out that we are trying that we do care.We just want to enjoy are time here with what we have in a decent matter.

Posted by Hobo Willy (Member # 95) on October 03, 2003 09:02 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Backcountry Colorado:
I just finished contacting Comcast indicating my intentions and recent actions. Since it is hosted on their servers, they may take action against him. Especially since I mentioned adding them to the cease and desist order.

Can you get my stuff removed too??

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 03, 2003 10:57 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by flexychevy:
I just went to his site to read his mumbo jumbo and his links are still working.You might want to take another look at it.

This is great, did anyone notice the links that he provided to get around the block?

http://home.comcast.net/~roadripper/colo1.html
http://home.comcast.net/~roadripper/colo2.html
etc. etc.

Roadripper. ROAD RIPPER!!!!! Doh! Nothing like incriminating yourself [Big Grin]

Nice one Mark. [Laugh2]

Here's the text he posted on his page, this is great [Big Grin]

quote:
What the off-roaders don't want you to see!

Off-roaders have attempted to block and deny access from this site to their discussion groups, in order to keep people from seeing their self-incriminating statements. If you get a FORBIDDEN notice on some of the links to their site, cut and paste the following URLS into another browser to see what they are attempting to cover up

That's beautiful! [Big Grin]

If anything I ENCOURAGE people to visit this site so they can participate in discussions and get the real skinney. The blatantly biased and lie-infested web page that he presents, without any means for discussion, is nothing less than a sad grasp for attention from a desperate soul. The more exaggerated and extreme the better is his motto, and if it includes wild accusations and pure speculation that all works for him. The poor guy doesn't even realize that sending people here HURTS his position [Big Grin]

The key to persuasive speech is not to allow your audience to hear the other side of the story. [Laugh2]

So keep sending your audience here Mark, WE STRONGLY ENCOURAGE IT! Your site was banned from linking directly to Colorado4x4.org simply because you did so without asking permission. According to the above testamony you've also stolen images and presented them on your site as your own (and currently continue to do so) so apparantly you feel you can do whatever you like. You can link to websites without permission, you can use property (images) without permission (theft), and you have previously demonstrated that you feel you can close public roads without permission (remember the trees that you cut down across CR87 and the deep ruts that you carved into that public road? No speculation there, YOU SAID IT YOURSELF!). If ANYONE looks suspicious in the recent Lefthand Canyon vandalism it is you Mark. You have prior history of this exact same behavior and your webpage is a living demonstration of your contempt for law. So please, Mark, please DO continue to direct your audience to Colorado4x4.org. The more educated the public becomes, the less dangerous you become. [Big Grin]

[ October 03, 2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Eric ]

Posted by Camp (Member # 496) on October 03, 2003 11:05 AM :

Ouch! That's going to leave a mark [Thumbsup]

Truth is wonderful thing.

Posted by Chuck Henry - GollyGwagen (Member # 266) on October 03, 2003 11:33 AM :

Gave some money to the Barking Dog fund.

I just don't get the whole idea that we would block trails we are trying to use. I see how he accuses us of unstacking rocks to make it so only WE can go there... but NO ONE could drive down a trail full of trees. I just don't get it.

Good luck with this monkey. I doubt he'll ever pay, but that doesn't mean we should stop fighting.

Posted by jumpinNrollin (Member # 783) on October 03, 2003 12:04 PM :

This guy is not real smart. This wasn't (unfortunately) on my radar screen till he decided to illegally use pics from this and other sites. BTW, I have never used or even been close to that trail so this is in no way self serving (although it may become that way now, if you get my point, someone give me directions [Razz]

).

Sent donation to Barking Dog. If you can, you should also to help defeat people like this, if not for the preservation of use of public lands.

I mean...he is his worst enemy and what seems like a great fund raising source! Good luck VB, let me know if I can help in any way. Thanks

Posted by xjSLATE (Member # 2569) on October 03, 2003 12:14 PM :

this kind of reminds me of the whole 9/11 thing (sorry to bring that subject up) but whoever did this pretty much woke a sleeping giant. i am going to send money for this right now.

Posted by bronca aka Ryan (Member # 2430) on October 03, 2003 12:22 PM :

right on i went up there last night with colledge girls and counted 120 trees what a tragedy

Posted by Grandpa Jeep (Member # 47) on October 03, 2003 01:18 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by vb:
bosloughs property is on county road 87. the damage to lefthand is on county road 87j. there is one hill between the areas and all dirt roads. boslough is known by the nieghbors up there and several of them have the exact equipment that did the damage.

So what you're saying is Boslough lives just over the hill from the damage, and could have "borrowed" the equipment nearby? Furthermore, he has blocked a public road before and gotten away with it (so far). He also seems to think eco-terrorism is OK as evidenced by his letter to the Alburquerque Journal posted on his page. Then he tries to blame VB (who has worked to clear roads, not block them). I hope the sheriff and th FS are investigating him seriously.

Posted by XJ-HIGHLANDER (Member # 1854) on October 03, 2003 01:36 PM :

"CAUSING MASS DESTRUCTION!!"

--Public Enemy

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 03, 2003 02:40 PM :

paypal or check is fine. and yes mark lives in nm . his brother lives around the brighten area and works for the railroad. yes they would have access to machinery. in fact back when boslough first started to block barking dog he "borrowed" mr rameys backhoe without permission (if i remember this correctly) something along those lines anyway.
the damage was done sometime around laborday are slightly before so he might have been back here. even if he wasnt driveing the rig the guess is that he was involved somehow.
and a good point to make would be that the more the authorities let this stuff go on unchecked the bolder these folks become. it time to take a stand and set a legal presidence that can be used to stop this type of thing. it goes on all the time here in the west and it is illegal for these surrounding land oners to block public roads . without funds for the fight esspecially in boulder county the autorities will continue to let these folks break the law
given the prank that was linked to the darwin award we see that boslough likes to place "code" in his stories. i think it was said well that roadripper is a huge giveaway to his position .

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 06, 2003 06:26 PM :

FYI - the FBI are helping the FS to find the vandals. Sounds like this is being taken seriously by the FS [Big Grin]

for which I am glad, maybe the people that think eco-terrorism is "ok" sometimes will think twice, especially after one of their own gets thrown into Federal prison.

Posted by Backcountry Colorado (Member # 1364) on October 06, 2003 10:42 PM :

My lawyer is drawing up the cease and desist papers this week. They will hopefully be signed and on their way when I return from Moab next week. Mark needs to realize that he is not the only intelligent and resourceful person envolved in this matter. All he had to do was remove the photos, give photo credit, or ask permission to use them. [Wink]

Posted by Hobo Willy (Member # 95) on October 08, 2003 12:16 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Backcountry Colorado:
My lawyer is drawing up the cease and desist papers this week. They will hopefully be signed and on their way when I return from Moab next week. Mark needs to realize that he is not the only intelligent and resourceful person envolved in this matter. All he had to do was remove the photos, give photo credit, or ask permission to use them.

Ray,

He is using a photo I created (and is copyrighted--see our website) back in 99. He used to link it off my site, now he has saved it and renamed it to his (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebalarat/trailidiots.jpg).

I have no $$, can you help??

Bill

Posted by Hobo Willy (Member # 95) on October 08, 2003 12:43 PM :

More jiberous on the fallicy that if you remove photos or access you are hiding something. Check this out:
http://www.darkendeavors.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=52&posts=1

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 08, 2003 06:10 PM :

Hobo,

It really doesn't take that much to have a lawyer draft a letter and then mail via certification. If they are yours and you do not like how they are being used a cease letter will usually get the job done. This has happened to Consumption Junction several times.

Snotty

By the way, if you want to see someone go off the deep end, start making crap up about Mark. I have never seen someone go ballistic as quick as him. But I am in no way condoning that that type of behavior.

Posted by Whip&RideTJ (Member # 2760) on October 08, 2003 11:53 PM :

Could somebody PM me and tell me how to use paypal? I'm sick of this knuclehead.

Posted by Hobo Willy (Member # 95) on October 09, 2003 03:53 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Hobo Willy:

quote:
Originally posted by Backcountry Colorado:
My lawyer is drawing up the cease and desist papers this week. They will hopefully be signed and on their way when I return from Moab next week. Mark needs to realize that he is not the only intelligent and resourceful person envolved in this matter. All he had to do was remove the photos, give photo credit, or ask permission to use them.
Ray,

He is using a photo I created (and is copyrighted--see our website) back in 99. He used to link it off my site, now he has saved it and renamed it to his (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebalarat/trailidiots.jpg).

I have no $$, can you help??

Bill

Our logo is also used illegally here (linked from our site--along with the 3 photo set:
http://home.comcast.net/~roadripper/DogWalk.html

Snotty, I have NO $$ for a lawyer.

Posted by batavus (Member # 1118) on October 10, 2003 04:25 PM :

Article on LHC - mainstream media is picking this up now.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2546136/detail.html

Posted by Joker (Member # 30) on October 13, 2003 11:29 AM :

WOW.....His website has totally changed now.....the pressure must be really getting to him... [Laugh2]

http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 13, 2003 11:52 AM :

hum - maybe he was tired of his own words being used against him [Razz]

. Or maybe he is showing that he has something to hide, as according to him that is the only reason to change a page, but there I go using his own words against him again [Big Grin]

I'm sure quite a few of us have his "old" pages saved just for posterities sake though [Roll Eyes]

Posted by 1BGDOG AKA 1BGDOG (Member # 652) on October 13, 2003 12:25 PM :

"Of course, we already know what radio station the members of Colorado4x4.org listen to. KBPI."

Wow I didn't know that I listened to this station...Oh he is making a funny.What a Chowderhead.

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 13, 2003 12:28 PM :

Seems all he can do anymore is point fingers and continue his smear campaign. [Roll Eyes]

He's obviously trying to stir something up but I don't know what or why. The irony surrounding his efforts is that all he seems to do is stir up more support for reopening the road. [Thumbsup]

This topic has been more or less dormant for months until he decided to spark the fire again. He can't maintain a link to this site either so I see he's resorted to copying entire discussion threads to his site. Aside from the fact that doing so is illegal (copyright laws, gotta love em!), the credibility of the copied text is about zero. Sorta like a company doing an in-house survey and announcing that their product was voted #1 [Laugh]

I still get a kick out of him trying to connect the copyright protection efforts with us "trying to hide something." [Laugh]

The sad truth is if he had simply contacted me and asked permission to link to topics on CO4x4.org I would have said yes. As I mentioned earlier it only hurts his cause to send his audience here (and hey, exposure for us is exposure for us). Instead he apparantly believes the world is HIS oyster and that he can do whatever he pleases with no regard for law or even common courtesy. Again copying copyrighted text to his own site without permission only serves to hurt his credibility.

Kinda sad to watch him spiral downward to such levels of desperation, I wonder what his colleagues think of him?

Btw, those top two smilies crack me up, especially the "bitch" one [Big Grin]

I'm gonna have to use that one more often LOL.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 13, 2003 02:19 PM :

What a loser. He is back peddling so damn fast I am sure he has forgotten what forward momentum even feels like. He is such a coward and an obvious liar. I wonder if maybe we shouldn't start a website with nothing but copies of the slander that Mark Boslough has put on the web. I would really like to take all the lies that he has published and go have a chat with the very congress man that he has claimed to have spoken to as well. I wonder what they would think of all this now.

Guess what he thought was high and mighty was really just his head in the clouds. I am sure that any respect that he has had from the people that were on his side is starting to dwindle like crazy. People will support you until they find out that you are a liar. Wonder if the Boulder Lout knows anything about this side of Mark and his Family. I wonder how they will take to be manipulated and lied to by Mark.

Maybe we should send them all the captures of his web sites and the bogus and out and out lies he has published.

Hey Mark! I know you read this all the time. Do you think that Vernon could sue you for slander and false implication of a crime that he had nothing to so with and turn that money around to finish with you and the BG issue? Now that would be justice at it’s finest. It is becoming more and more apparent that you do not care about the environment and only used that mantra to further your own selfish agenda. I notice you don’t have the balls to keep your website in its original status with its slander, out right lies and false implications of. How will the greenies feel when they figure out that you used and lied to them?

Maybe you should start thinking with your head instead of your ass. Maybe you should quit trying to steal public land.

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 13, 2003 04:27 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Snotty:
It is becoming more and more apparent that you do not care about the environment and only used that mantra to further your own selfish agenda.

I don't think we have to look too far to see what the true motivation is for Mark. Let's see, a plot of land with a public road thru the middle of it vs. a plot of land without a public road thru the middle of it. Hmmm... which would you want to own? From his perspective you purchase the land with a road thru it for cheap, then get rid of the road. Instant equity.

$$$$ <-- it makes the world go around.

Posted by Willie G (Member # 1622) on October 13, 2003 09:12 PM :

As I said elsewhere, the Special Warranty Deed he brags about having is a waving red flag for any experienced attorney - it says that the seller is covering his butt because the property has hidden legal defects (and the seller knows about them) but the buyer is too dumb to ask.

Mr. Greenhorn went out on a limb when he purchased the property and VB has fired up the ol' Homelite Zip and is ready to cut it off.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Gunter (Member # 2943) on October 14, 2003 12:20 AM :

i think if one gives him enuff rope,he will hang himself(hopefully)

Posted by flexychevy (Member # 5) on October 14, 2003 05:51 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by vb:
paypal or check is fine. and yes mark lives in nm . his brother lives around the brighten area and works for the railroad. yes they would have access to machinery. .

Hey VB,does he work for Union pacific?If this was done with Union Pacific equipment I can put his tit in a ringer.My boss is very good friends with the superindendent in Cheyenne.Plus my company would frown on acts like this,exspecialy if it involves them.

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 14, 2003 08:36 AM :

He must be gettin' pretty pissed because now he's making stuff up about copyrights [Laugh2]

Take a few moments and read up on copyrights if you're interested (and I highly recommend it) because everything he states is wrong. For one, the copyright notice at the bottom of every CO4x4 page doesn't even have to be there. All web pages are copyrighted as soon as they are created (tangible), with or without the displayed notice (yes, even Mark's pages are copyrighted despite the lack of a copyright statement). I display the notice at the bottom of every page simply as a reminder and the justification is evidenced by Mark's comments. This copyright covers all original material on the page, it does not suddenly claim that ALL content is copyrighted by CO4x4. One person's / organization's copyright cannot supercede the copyright of someone else's work, I'm amazed even Mark can say something so ignorant. If what he said was true then I guess he's trying to claim MHJC's logo as his own [Roll Eyes]

While Boslough's page is copyrighted (he probably didn't even realize that), we are free to discuss it (and his images btw) here under the Fair Use provision (the same provision that he is relying on to copy CO4x4 pages). We are also free to parody anything on his page (including images) under Fair Use. Remember the reunion image he's referring to? We're allowed to discuss, commment, and parody it thru Fair Use [Flipoff2]

For information on copyrights (Mark, this is for your benefit [Wink]

) check out these sites for starters:

The Copyright Website

Top 10 Copyright myths

And of course the US Copyright Office

Sometimes I feel like it's not even an effort to embarrass Mark, he seems to do a great job all on his own [Laugh]

OK, we're now way off topic and my apologies for using this thread to discuss Mark's musings.

[Beer]

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 14, 2003 09:40 AM :

[Laugh2]

Mark Boslough is claiming that CO4x4 has gone to extraordinary lengths to hide information from the public!

Mark Boslough used private property without even taking the time to follow his own advice. He didn't ask! He is a hypocrite! Hidden to the general public… Hello! Anyone that comes to this to site can see anything and everything posted here. Mark Boslough can't link to it because he didn't ask too. I thought Mark Boslough was big on private property and respecting the rights of property owners. The owner of Colorado4x4 has on several occasions made it quite clear that had Mark Boslough asked, he would have let Mark Boslough link here. Quite simply for the traffic and because most people want both sides of the story. Not only do most people want the whole story in which to make a valid decision, they want the truth.

Mark Boslough had the opportunity to engage in meaningful conversation with members of this forum and in fact the wheeling community. But he decided to start a smear campaign from the start as evidenced by his posting as Knobby Bobby. Mark Boslough has portrayed responsible citizens in negative manner and slandered members of this forum and the wheeling community to further his cause.

Mark Boslough has lied, twisted and distorted facts, destroyed the very land he says he is trying to protect. Pictures of the damage that he has done to his own property and that of a public road can be found on the internet if you look hard enough. The self inflicted damage is also on record with the local Sheriff’s department. In fact, the self inflicted damage and his quotes about having to use heavy machinery to close a public road are remarkably similar to the damage and heavy machinery used in the Left Hand recreational area. Am I implying that Mark Boslough is responsible for the damage done in the Left Hand Area? No, unlike Mark Boslough blatantly trying to connect Vernon Brandt to the damage in the Left Hand Area and suggesting that the authorities investigate Vernon Brandt for the damage, I will leave that to the FBI and local authorities to hammer out. But I am drawing a correlation between the self inflicted damage of Mark Boslough’s property and public road that traverses it, to the same damage done to the Left Hand Area. Not the actions of what I would consider responsible property owners that respect the rights of others and the environment.

Mark Bosloughs ethics, tactics, actions, slander and mis-information could actually be compared to that of the terror organizations ELF and ALF. Destruction of reputable people and property to further a personal agenda.

So please Mr. Boslough, continue to link to Colorado4x4.org from your website. The truth as it has been said is out there. And your site although filled with massive amounts of mis-information is a pointing mechanism to a site filled with responsible, active and productive members of society as a whole, but with environmental issues as well.

Posted by Willie G (Member # 1622) on October 14, 2003 11:41 AM :

Well said, Snotty.

[Big Grin]

Posted by 98 Trooper (Member # 2888) on October 14, 2003 01:41 PM :

I'm new to this forum. A guy sent me the post through www.thumpertalk.com which is a 4-stroke motorcycle site with 20K+ members.

We usually ride Left Hand in the winter and watch guys in Carnage rock crawling and really enjoy the area.

I sincerely hope the FS and FBI find out who did this and prosecute them to the fullest extent.

Thanks for all the info.

John

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 14, 2003 03:06 PM :

welcome to the board [Big Grin]

Posted by Gunter (Member # 2943) on October 14, 2003 04:30 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Joker:
WOW.....His website has totally changed now.....the pressure must be really getting to him...

http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

where was his acusation that vb did all the tree downing now? i saw it and posted to it,now it is gone? he must have rad up on libel.what a moron.

Posted by Gunter (Member # 2943) on October 14, 2003 04:33 PM :

he posted under the name knobby bobby? sounds like he has some "issues" to let out of the closet.LOL!

Posted by 98 Trooper (Member # 2888) on October 14, 2003 04:33 PM :

Thanks. You guys seem to be fairly organized and are one of the only places I've been able to find information about LH.

I don't 4-wheel a whole lot but I do like going occasionally with the family to get my boys out.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 14, 2003 04:55 PM :

Mark Boslough is a frequent lurker here. His website changes almost on a daily basis due in part to what is posted here. His latest hee haw is the copyright issue. He is even distorting facts and lying about the pics that were posted of him on this bbs and Ray Greco. He goes so far as to say Ray claims copyright of a photo and that the photo just disappeared. The photo was taken down after derogatory remarks were made about Mark and his physical resemblance to a particular sex toy. Ray later posted why he removed the photo. But I guess Mark Boslough missed that and decided to paint Ray in a bad light anyway.

quote:
From Mark Boslough’s website:
Copyright conflict over reunion photograph of Mark Boslough

Both Colorado4x4.org and BackCountry Colorado (a local business that supports and profits from off-road trespassing) have claimed to own the copyright to a mdified high-school reunion photograph of Mark Boslough. It was posted on the Colorado4x4.org website by Ray Greco and Colorado4x4.org stamped the page with their copyright cliam (see above), Mr. Greco kept it on his business's server at http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo.php. It suddenly disappeared off Mr. Greco's server sometime after Oct. 11, but not until after he claimed he owned the copyright.

Mark Boslough is trying as hard as he can to make the members of CO4x4 and the wheeling community look like they are mean and evil which is very untrue. The exposure that we are getting now due to the damage done in the Left Hand Area and by our constant positive interaction with the NFS, BLM and local agencies are now hampering his cause.

We are not in the wrong here. We are exercising our rights to access legal and public trails. We are helping to preserve and protect our environment. We are working with the agencies entrusted with the care or public lands to make sure that all future generations can enjoy the back country, not just a select few. We are not chopping down trees, moving boulders, digging trenches and destroying habitat that will take hundreds of years to recover. We are not acting like owners who feel they can take the law into their hands because they don’t like the legal answers they have received. We are not the vigilantes. Mark Boslough and the other property owners who feel that they can dictate law and steal public property and violate every environmental measure are.

[ October 14, 2003, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Snotty ]

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 10:19 AM :

Keep back peddling Mr. Boslough...

quote:
By Mark Boslough
Ad hominem attacks

If you came to this website hoping to find ad hominem attacks and character assasinations, you won't find them here. This site respects the reader's ability to distinguish between fact and fiction. You won't find the words "liar" or "idiot" here. What you will find is evidence in the form of photographs, historical documents, maps, and verifiable quotes. Our position is that differences of opinion can be discussed among adults without resorting to insults. We firmly believe that legal disagreements should be decided by judges, not by vigilantes.

We encourage you to decide for yourself. Read on, and be sure to click on the links at the bottom of this page for more details. Constructive feedback is welcome. Please write: balarat@comcast.net.

It was about on year ago that Mark Boslough came to this site for no other reason then start a virtual riot. He was inflammatory, derogatory, and belittled everyone with a differing view and in fact resorted to name calling on a regular basis. Mark Boslough was not concerned about constructive conversation and made several negative remarks about peoples patriotism and values. The information is still on this forum and can be found by searching for posts made by Knobby Bobby. Shame on you Mark Boslough.

Mark Boslough then goes on to change his website depending on the views of the people of this BBS. It was less then two months ago that Mark Boslough went on a personal campaign against Vernon Brandt. In so far as to accuse Vernon Brandt of the damage in the Left Hand area. Since these and many more issues that could be found on Mark Bosloughs website have been pointed out, Mark Boslough has changed his website in an effort to discredit this site and the wheeling community. Shame on you Mark Boslough.

Mark Boslough does not need the help of this BBS or the wheeling community to portray the real Mark Boslough, one but need to visit his site on a daily basis and monitor the changing trends. In his latest effort he has added the above quote to his website which is a direct reaction of posts that can be found here. It would seem that Mark Boslough cannot stick to his true intentions and sticks his finger in the wind to determine what way the wind is blowing and then change accordingly. Shame on you Mark Boslough.

Mark Boslough is deceptive in nature and action, and continues with the modification to his website to portray that he is indeed the victim in these issues. Mark Boslough is the mass perpetrator in the very actions that he accuses others of. Shame on you Mark Boslough.

Mark Boslough, shame on you. Shame on you for your deceptive actions. Shame on you for attacking people and accusing them of crimes they did not commit. Shame on you for the self inflicted damage to your property. Shame on you for not sticking to your guns and changing your website to suit your agenda and not the truth of your actions.

Mark Boslough, Your claim of not personally attacking members of this forum and the Wheeling Community is a sham at best. Your statements of never doing so are in my opinion a total distortion of the facts. There are members of this forum that take on a regular basis take screen shots and prints of his website. Mark Boslough does not need my help or that of anyone else to discredit his actions and stated intentions. Mark Boslough has done that well enough on his own.

Shame on you Mark Boslough.

[ October 15, 2003, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Snotty ]

Posted by Mike Holmes (Member # 196) on October 15, 2003 10:36 AM :

you wont find the words "liar" or "idiot" on his site, but you WILL find a lot of lies written by an idiot. bravo knob.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 11:48 AM :

In Mark Boslough's divine wisdom and effort to portray himself as the victim he has failed to monitor his actions. Below are two quotes from Mark Boslough. You can be the judge on what the Mark Boslough's intentions are. It would seem to me that he is not practicing what he preaches.

The top quote can be found on today’s version of his website, Oct 15, 2003. The following quote was on Mark Boslough's website within the last month.

quote:
By Mark Boslough:
If you came to this website hoping to find ad hominem attacks and character assasinations, you won't find them here. This site respects the reader's ability to distinguish between fact and fiction. You won't find the words "liar" or "idiot" here. What you will find is evidence in the form of photographs, historical documents, maps, and verifiable quotes. Our position is that differences of opinion can be discussed among adults without resorting to insults. We firmly believe that legal disagreements should be decided by judges, not by vigilantes.

We encourage you to decide for yourself. Read on, and be sure to click on the links at the bottom of this page for more details. Constructive feedback is welcome. Please write: balarat@comcast.net.

quote:
By Mark Boslough:
It is too early to make accusations about who did this, but surely the likely suspects must include Mile-Hi Jeep Club officer Vernon Brandt, who has a history of making threats aimed at landowners. Brandt has spent the last four years attempting to generate animosity toward property onwers in the area. On Sunday, June 25, 2000, Vernon and his vigilantes destroyed dozens of trees on the Balarat Creek Ranch, and then tried to blame it on the owners. Just a few days before the recent vandalism on Fairview Peak, Vernon publicly threatened to take a backhoe to another local landowner's property. Vernon Brandt solicited help from other vigilantes.
He even specified the kind of heavy equipment he planned to use. We urge the U.S Forest Service to investigate Vernon Brandt.

In the second quote Mark Boslough states that Vernon Brandt and his vigilantes have destroyed dozens of trees. It is well documented by Vernon Brandt, the local Sheriffs office and by quotes from Mark Boslough that the damage and felled trees were Mark Boslough’s response and effort to close a public road.

In a final statement by Mark Boslough, he claims that Vernon Brandt had threatened to take a backhoe to another land owner’s property. There is plenty of proof that Mark Boslough has taken this action to his own and to public property. In fact, the damage in the Left Hand area was done to public property as stated by the NSF that is entrusted with the land in the Left Hand area.

Mark Boslough dislikes the use of the word liar, I can only assume that is simply because for him to use such terms would in essence be calling the kettle black.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 12:11 PM :

As for Mark Boslough’s claim that he does not use the word idiot on his website, I would like to bring to your attention to a slip or mistake by Mark Boslough.

I would like to present the properties of a photograph that was not taken by Mark Boslough but was used to further his agenda. The photograph can be found on Mark Boslough’s website http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

The original properties of the photograph were:

http://members.tripod.com/HoboJeepers/images/BDall2.jpg

The new properties are:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebalarat/trailidiots.jpg

Please make note of the word idiots that Mark Boslough claims will not be used on his website.

I am sure that this will change as soon as Mark Boslough reads this so I took the opportunity to make a screen shot for future reference. It is very clear that Mark Boslough is not sincere in his words because his actions are quite contradictory to them. I would also like to point out that Mark Boslough did not take the time to request permission from the owners of the photo so that he could use it in the manner that he has. I also have current screen shots of Mark Boslough’s website for future reference to validate any future claims that Mark Boslough may inadvertently try to claim as a truth.

[ October 15, 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Snotty ]

Posted by Eric (Member # 1) on October 15, 2003 12:53 PM :

Check out the very first sentence he ever posted at CO4x4, here's his first post (posting under his alias "Knobby Bobby"):

http://www.colorado4x4.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000030

quote:
There are some real idiots out there.

and the third sentence begins...

quote:
Idiots like the Mile-Hi Jeep Club

Yup, Mark is clearly above the word "idiot" and certainly doesn't engage in smear tactics [Roll Eyes]

Snots, all good points but this thread really isn't the place for discussing Mark's erratic behavior. I'm going to create another post specifically for welcoming visitors from his page(s) and presenting a picture of Mark in his own words. Gimme a day or so to get that together. From there we can link back to posts in this thread if we want to or we'll just copy and paste the relevant info into that thread. Again, just gimme a little time to get that setup.

[Beer]

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 01:08 PM :

Thanks Eric.

As I was putting this altogether last night and this morning I was wondering where I should place this info. Thanks for giving us the proper place to work out of.

As soon as you have it I will take full advantage of it.

Posted by DT (Member # 3012) on October 15, 2003 01:21 PM :

Snotty,

Thank you for taking the time to say what needs to be said! [Thumbsup]

Eric,

There is no better way for people to understand the thoughs and actions of Mr. Boslough than use his own words, posted here on this site, against him. [Beer]

Back to the original topic, is there any new information as to the status of the federal investigation? I assume that the FS will make a press release once the investigation is officially complete, but just curious if there is anything new.

Posted by Luv_Jeeps (Member # 3023) on October 15, 2003 01:37 PM :

Another newbie here. Been reading things for a while, and usually post on JU or others.

It's too bad that people had to stoop so low, and destroy what they did up in the LHC area.
The Wife and I are avid wheelers, and also very careful about where we go and what we do.
We try very hard to tread lightly.
I hope they catch the person (hmmm, wonder who that might be.....) and fry their ass but good.

As far as Mark Boslough goes, well it occurs to me that he has a very low intelligence, and likes to do anything (lie, use libelious language) to get his way.
Well Mark, since I know you troll here..... [Flipoff]

You'll get what's coming to you in a courtroom really soon. [Flipoff2]

--Luv_Jeeps--

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 02:19 PM :

Hmmm... Very interesting... Just tried to go to Marks website and got this:

Page URL Not Found!!

The requested page does not exist on this server. The URL you typed or followed is either outdated or inaccurate.

edit for typo on my part. [Mad]

Got it, for some reason the link captured the period as well. Damn typos...

[ October 15, 2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Snotty ]

Posted by Joker (Member # 30) on October 15, 2003 02:23 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by Snotty:
Hmmm... Very interesting... Just tried to go to Marks website and got this:

Page URL Not Found!!

I can still get onto this site:

http://home.comcast.net/~balarat/ranch.html

Posted by DT (Member # 3012) on October 15, 2003 02:30 PM :

Snotty,

The address in your earlier message (11:11 AM) has an extra "." on the end. Remove the "." and the link work.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 02:51 PM :

Got it, for some reason the link captured the period as well. Damn typos...

Posted by XJRegen (Member # 2464) on October 15, 2003 03:39 PM :

just thought i would bring this up:
http://home.comcast.net/~roadripper/DogWalk.html

that site is still using images hot linked from hobojeepers site

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 15, 2003 04:28 PM :

I thought you might find this email exchange between me (JD) and Adam M. (Trailridge Runners 4WD club, the ones that did the work in the lower part of the Lefthand area) interesting--
--------
JD wrote to TRR 4WD club:
Re: downed trees and damage in Lefthand Canyon area--
Glad someone is looking into this! The two places that they blocked off result in closure to access of about 1/4 of the Lefthand Canyon riding area. It's a CURIOUS coincidence that the new maps the FS put up at the main parking area and up at "five points" show "private land" past the point of the blockages, even though this has been an open 4wd route up past Fairview Peak for as long as anyone can remember, and was included in the first maps I saw that they drew up. I've been told by more than one person that the 4wd road continues around Fairview Peak and through the Denver Public School property out to
Balarat road, and that DPS isn't allowed to padlock their gate because of the status of that road. If that's indeed true, then the NEW welded metal fence and locked gate on the OTHER side of
Fairview Peak is also illegal. (I can give GPS coordinates if needed).
I hear that someone followed the heavy equipment
tracks to a house up there, eh??? YES!!!
So, how soon is this idiot (or idiots) going to jail???, and how soon can we go up there and clear the blockages?
As usual, let me know if there's any way that I can help. Thanks, JD
their reply to follow shortly

[ November 07, 2003, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: cleanbike ]

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 15, 2003 04:34 PM :

Adam M. (TRR 4WD club) reply to JD--
Adam Mehlberg wrote:
John,
The Forest Service did change the maps, due to complaints by the people that live in the canyon. Legally they do not have right of ways across the private property. But, legally the roads have been open uninterrupted for over 20 years, which makes them public highways by Colorado Statues Part 2 - County and Other Public Highways, 43-2-201 part c. Being in Boulder County though, means you would have to file a lawsuit to get the county commissioners to follow the Colorado Statute. Same deal as we have going on over the Barking Dog 4WD road(Balarat Road). The damage, if on public lands, is a federal offense. The person(s) responsible will have some trouble coming their way. Of course, the media will either say nothing, or make it a persecution of a property owner, even though the damage is in excess of anything motorized users have done this summer.We are going to have to wait on the Boulder Ranger District, but it won't hurt to call in and complain about the damage that has been done and ask what is being done to resolve it. The more the motorized community calls into the Boulder Ranger District, the more they will get the message that this is an important area. (Don't expect a solution right away, it is a criminal investigation.)
Adam Mehlberg
Trailridge Runners 4WD Club.-----
JD's reply to this reply posted shortly

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 15, 2003 04:54 PM :

JD's reply to Adam M.'s reply (actually the hi-lights of two replies)--

Thank you very much for your reply.
Obviously I personally do not have the funds to
file a lawsuit. I DO, however, have a chainsaw and
a 4WD with a winch. If these are "public highways by Colorado Statues", then I find it hard to buy the statement that the FS "could not legally show the roads..." on their map. They could, and they SHOULD. I'd find it easier to believe that someone got slipped a wad of cash under the table. If the "complaints" by the HANDFUL of people up there [2 or 3 cabins] are enough to get the FS to change their maps, then obviously they are not protecting the interests and rights of the Public, and, [if they allow] this to happen with impunity, [they would be] complicit in the CRIME that has occurred up there---
not only the downing of all those trees, but in denying future access to hundreds of acres of National Forest beyond that point. We shouldn't have to file a lawsuit to get the Forest Service to DO THEIR JOB.
[We're not just talking about motorized access], I was hiking up there with my dogs a couple weeks ago, and when I returned to my truck I found a nasty note on my windshield about trespassing on private property, which I was NOT.
These people have effectively STOLEN a large chunk of our Public Lands.
One wouldn't expect such an investigation to take more than a few months. Is anyone talking about organizing a group to go clear the blockages [as soon as the investigation is over]? That might not be officially sanctioned..., but certainly would be more legal than the damage that was done, and would make "a statement" that we're not going to quietly put up with this kind of thing any more. Name a day and time and I WILL BE THERE with several friends to help. JD

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 08:07 PM :

http://www.darkendeavors.com/forum/forum-view.asp?forumid=3

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 15, 2003 09:48 PM :

Holy activity batman - just a few posts over there today.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 15, 2003 10:53 PM :

Oh, there will be more. They have rocket scientist showing up now.

Posted by Jeff Mason (Member # 94) on October 16, 2003 04:47 AM :

Below is the opening portion of Boslough's website.

Just out of curioisty, can anyone explain exactly what kind of 'ranch' he has up there?? From the description, it sounds like it is an actual working ranch (derived from the "family owned and OPERATED ranch")[emphasis added]. I wonder exactly what livestock is being raised, or what crops are being farmed, or exactly what buildings and out-buildings he has on the property such that they really are 'working' the ranch.

Or is that another attempt to misguide the public to gain sympathy??? IMO, Absentee landowners don't play up a lot of sympathy with the general public, but a 'spin' of words to make people believe that you LIVE on the PROPERTY and MAKE A LIVING FROM IT and are BEING DEPRIVED OF THAT OPPORTUNITY, well that's another story all together.

I wonder if he get any kind of property tax break or federal assistance for owning and operating a 'working ranch'.

----------------
Balarat Creek Ranch
P.O. Box 76
Jamestown, Colorado 80455

Balarat Creek Ranch is a family owned and operated ranch.

It is the site of the historic Boulder County town of Balarat, privately owned since 1878.

Our mission is environmental and historical preservation.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 16, 2003 08:29 AM :

There is no Livestock up there at all. It is not a working ranch as there is zero agriculture of any sort. They simply call it a ranch. I do not know if there is a legal description, but there would have to be permits for any type of ag. When I looked at the deeds and records on file with Boulder County there are no such records or permits that I could find. I do think they would be allowed a certain amount of horses and cattle but nothing on a scale that could be misconstrued as a working ranch. It is an effort to portray the property as something it is not. Most people will believe what they are told without verifying any of it. Which is one of things that give Mark any type of power. People will believe what they want to believe. Regardless if it is true or not.

Posted by 98 Trooper (Member # 2888) on October 16, 2003 10:14 AM :

"I hear that someone followed the heavy equipment
tracks to a house up there, eh??? YES!!!"

I heard something with regards to the above quote as well. Does anyone know it this is true?

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 16, 2003 10:31 AM :

no - there was some mis-understanding in the original release.

here are some corrections that I have seen:
1. The FBI is NOT involved in this investigation.
2. A special investigator from NFS Region 2 headquarters is conducting the investigation.
3. Heavy equipment tracks were visible leaving the area, but not to a private house. They were seen on a private road that leads to several private property homes.
4. Some of the road damage was done to private roads.
5. This damaged area is not part of the Trailridge Runners OHV grant work area.

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 16, 2003 05:07 PM :

re: LHC atrocity:
One thing is for sure, every day that route stays blocked, it is that much less likely that it will ever be re-opened again. Sad and disgusting. Destroy the forest to save it? Cut off your nose to spite your face? They've gone too far this time... I guess we have to "sit tight" for now, but every month that goes by, we ALL need to keep up with what's going on with this and not just let it go. First it's Barking Dog, then this LHC atrocity. If they get away with it, YOUR FAVORITE AREA will be next on their list no matter where it is! JD

[ October 22, 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: cleanbike ]

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 16, 2003 05:57 PM :

i agree with jd
i dont like seein this just sit with no action.the longer it sits the more likely it is that itll stay that way. the above post is somewhat true. i saw it circulated the other day. the tracks absolutly went to more then on residance and stoped at a certain and definate spot. lets keep the info straight if we are going to straighten it. the fs is protecting their case no doubt and im not sure where gene got his info. but

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 16, 2003 06:11 PM :

the town of balarat was never privately owned either. there is one more good check mate item in his statement and im not going to educate him or his lawyer any longer. neither has the sense that God gave a peanut, aw heck
someone copy his site real quick and then we'll watch how the clown fixes this
if indeed the road to the smuggler were private then the intryman onto the highland placer would have been tresspasing. in order to get to the site.
or another way to look at it , the mere fact that there is another claim further in from the smuggler on the ONLY road available means that the public used the road and since that was during the period that predates any othe reservation of public domain it means that THE ROAD IS A PUBLIC ROAD
mark boslough and his lawyer have NO clue!!!!!!!
mark boslough makes stuff up and in the end never thinks far enough ahead to figure out that he just shot himself in the foot. why does his lawyer let this clown out of his sight???
mark boslough can SAY all he wants.
THE ROAD IS A PUBLIC ROAD

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 16, 2003 06:18 PM :

BACK ON TOPIC. im concerned about the lefthand damage. and whether itll be cleaned up. i talked with a feller from the fs the other day and he said that the clean up was part of the investigation. in other words - it sounds as though they are going to treat it as one thing and not two seperate things. if this information is true it does bother me. that means that they will claim for a long time that the area is a crime scene and that the investagation is "ongoing" this would make it difficult for citizens to exercise their right to remove the obstructions to the public road.
im a pesimist fer sure. but still im thinkin i meght smell a rat

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 16, 2003 06:27 PM :

I think he has a clue and is more then aware of what he is doing. Eliminating RS2477 is the latest in a long line of land grabs. But it's not the government that is doing it. It is private citizens.

There is more then enough proof that BDT is a public ROW, has been and its use is documented. In fact, you can find that info on Mark's website. He knows it.

The thing that I find sad is the level in which these people are willing to go to steal public property. The mess in Left Hand is the latest in a long line of criminal activity by land owners that want land that was open just a decade ago closed. By closing the ROW's they can in one fell swoop raise the value of their land steal public property and get away with it. These are not the actions of concerned citizens, but the actions of land grabbing thief’s.

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 16, 2003 10:10 PM :

Just the fact that I personally know at least a dozen people who will tell you (and testify to the fact) that they have travelled that road on many occasions over the years SHOULD be enough for any judge to decide the proper facts about the area. (applies to Barking Dog as well as LHC).
I'm sure that VB has a longer list of such people no doubt. I bounced my poor 4-cylinder 1976 Chevy LUV truck down that road IN 1976!! (and hiked, biked (pedal and dirt), ATVd, and 4-wheeled there) EVERY single year since then, usually more than once per year. Shouldn't this be a classic case for an appointed "public defender"? It sure is the classic "poster child" for our right-of-way rights!!! With Lefthand within hollerin' distance from BDT, and (did you notice?) the new multi-million dollar house they're building down the NEW 300 yard road that got bulldozed into what I thought was Denver Public Schools property about EXACTLY halfway between... The locals have been whining about OHVs for years. The 2 green gates that were put up 8 to 10 years ago (one by the cabin) went across what used to be considered a county road, an alternate entrance into the LHC riding area, open and used for decades, 'abandoned' and conveniently disappeared off of official maps... too hard to maintain? and NOT ENOUGH COMPLAINTS WHEN THE GATES WENT UP. Yes I called and wrote letters back then, and got shady and evasive answers. We're not talking about a lot of people here either then or today-- there's only TWO cabins anywhere NEAR the road up to Fairview Peak, and the TWO owners have complained about OHVs for many years (mostly the noise of bad mufflers and 2-strokes) but didn't do A THING about it-- except once when they put up a cable across the trail just about at de-capitating level!! NO signs, NO fences, about all they ever did was go out every other year and throw a few branches over the established trails, or go yell at a dirtbiker or jeeper on the occasional weekend. Yes, I have been yelled at while riding around Fairview Peak down an established and long-used trail, and so did a friend of mine on another occasion, and this was 6 OR 7 YEARS AGO!! We started calling that section "Crazy Woman Trail" after then. Crazy??, or GREEDY?? Maybe they didn't have enough available cash to "oil the wheels of bureaucracy" till the new people building the huge new house showed up. Hey-- I might be wrong, I HOPE I'm wrong, but it's certainly something to put into the equation when trying to figure out what's
really going on up there.
Meanwhile, (back at the front line)I think it's absurd that VB's group has to come up with that kind of money for a lawyer... but of course it doesn't surprise me at all.
I'd almost lost hope in the cause until I came upon this Bulletin-BD recently. Thank you VERY much for what you're doing. My contribution is on it's way, and I'll send more as soon as I can. Sincerely, JD

Posted by Hairy (Member # 1214) on October 17, 2003 08:35 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Snotty:

The thing that I find sad is the level in which these people are willing to go to steal public property. The mess in Left Hand is the latest in a long line of criminal activity by land owners that want land that was open just a decade ago closed. By closing the ROW's they can in one fell swoop raise the value of their land steal public property and get away with it. These are not the actions of concerned citizens, but the actions of land grabbing thief’s.

But don't roads raise the value of land? Like I've seen places that as along as there's roads they subdivide and start puttin up mansions.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 17, 2003 09:01 AM :

A road that provides access to a subdivded area? Sure, that will add value. A road that is by OHV's? Hell no it won't add value.

These people move up thinking they are "Getting away from it all". Then to their shock, dismay and horror, discover a trail running through the very property they bought! It couldn't have been there when they bought the property, so it must be recent development! Right...

I have been wheeling all over this state since 1977. Trials don't just pop-up over night. Public ROW's have and do exist and these land grabbing thiefs are full aware af what they are doing.

If it was a greenie that was trying to kick OHV's off, that I can understand. But to hear a republican screaming about the environment while trying to eliminate a ROW across the land, well, it doesn't take a Scientist to figure out the true intentions.

Posted by Hairy (Member # 1214) on October 17, 2003 09:24 AM :

Very true Snotty, and I know that's for damn sure not the greenies agenda. But there's also alot of land grabbing thieve's that are developers and would love to pave and build. Most of the places I used to ride dirt bikes are now houses.

Posted by Snotty (Member # 109) on October 17, 2003 10:29 AM :

Move the airport, boom instant property value increase.

Move the drag strip, boom instant property value increase.

Move the OHV area, boom instant property value increase.

hmmm, I think I see a trend here...

Posted by Hairy (Member # 1214) on October 18, 2003 09:04 AM :

Yep, those with the money generally get their way. (sorry about gettin off topic on this thread)

Posted by Hairy (Member # 1214) on October 18, 2003 09:25 AM :

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cleanbike:
[QB] the new multi-million dollar house they're building down the NEW 300 yard road that got bulldozed into what I thought was Denver Public Schools property about EXACTLY halfway between... that's what I mean if you got the $$$$ then you get what you want

Posted by Hairy (Member # 1214) on October 18, 2003 09:38 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by cleanbike:
I bounced my poor 4-cylinder 1976 Chevy LUV truck down that road IN 1976!! JD

I thought it was closed in the '70s?? flooded and washed out and then it was gated for a while. I was up there with my old man in the 60"s but was remembering it was later on that it got opened back up.

Posted by SSII (Member # 29) on October 20, 2003 12:48 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by Snotty:
There is no Livestock up there at all. It is not a working ranch as there is zero agriculture of any sort. They simply call it a ranch. I do not know if there is a legal description, but there would have to be permits for any type of ag. When I looked at the deeds and records on file with Boulder County there are no such records or permits that I could find. I do think they would be allowed a certain amount of horses and cattle but nothing on a scale that could be misconstrued as a working ranch. It is an effort to portray the property as something it is not. Most people will believe what they are told without verifying any of it. Which is one of things that give Mark any type of power. People will believe what they want to believe. Regardless if it is true or not.

Thats interesting. I know when I had my Ag exemption, I had to prove there was livestock on it. Nope, sorry Horseys don't count and it used to be so many Cattle or Sheep. . I wounder if he has a AG exemption. A legit one. Know what I meen? [Idea]

If not, his taxes will jump and if he's fraudulent...... [Big Grin]

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 20, 2003 10:35 AM :

Hairy wrote:
"I thought it was closed in the '70s?? ..."
Definitely not, as far as I know (or anyone I've talked to about it). CONTINUOUS use since the 1800s. JD

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 20, 2003 10:40 AM :

I do think I heard something about a washout that happened back in the 1870s though. JD

Posted by mtroast (Member # 3053) on October 20, 2003 02:22 PM :

I'm going to look at the site tomorrow with one of the other COHVCO directors. The Forest Service is going to give us a tour. I'll let you know what they have to say about the situation at this point. JD pointed out that some of the trails closed by these trees are not on the new FS map and I'd like to know why that is.
Mike

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 20, 2003 04:42 PM :

the answer is that the land owners complained when we put the new kiosk down at the left hand entrance and so the fs changed to suit them. also we (the trailriddge runners) were also going to put a sign very close to the damaged area and the fs told us to put it on hold. this was just before the damage.
gimmie a call for more
970 222 0065
vernon

Posted by spacely (Member # 1861) on October 20, 2003 08:03 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by ImNotDave:
If the pictures are copyrighted, yes, the owner can take legal action. If they're public domain (posted on the web without copyright), then the owner has no claim to them.

that's not necessarily true...you do NOT have to have the copyright symbol for one of your works to be copyrighted...if it is an original work (i.e. article, photograph, poem, etc) by you, then you hold the copyright to it regardless of whether or not you but the copyright symbol on it, so technically, the use of the photographs without the permission of the photographer IS in violation of copyright law...another little known fact: any thoughts or words that are YOURS ARE copyrighted, thus the person who wants to use those words needs to ask permission for use of said words before publishing them (i'm pretty sure that how it goes, i can go back and double check the info i got from DOI copyright lawyer a couple years ago if needed)

Posted by spacely (Member # 1861) on October 20, 2003 08:54 PM :

ok, i guess i posted my last post a little too early, after reading through the whole post...

its sad that there are people out there who will go to the lengths that is obviously going on here to make someone or a group of people look bad...anyway, after looking at the Balarat Ranch site, I have just one question..they say they want to preserve its historic integrity, but where is the information on that? And, as someone who knows a great deal about historic preservation, what are their plans to keep said property from deteriorating? Not only that, I think it not so very cool to keep a part of Colorado's history away from the public...I know its a slightly different angle than everyone else has looked at, but there IS mention of the history of Balarat, but no concrete details/evidence, etc. Maybe I should tell Mr. Boslough that I would be MORE than happy to do all the necessary research for him for a small fee of $20/hour?? Especially with knowing all the tax breaks that can come with historic properties...ANYWAY...off that tangent, the whole situation is just crappy

Posted by bsaunder (Member # 14) on October 20, 2003 09:44 PM :

I'm about to give up - I tried to be nice, too bad ingnorance had to step in

http://www.darkendeavors.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=63&posts=9#314

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 20, 2003 10:00 PM :

seems the originater is looking for information to help him develope his case.
i like the way he says that the theory of four wheelers---- etc
its no theory. in fact if he studies some of the links i provided here in land use he will see that the presedance cases and state governments and the blm all say the same thing
the row pre dates the claim. and construction amouts to moveing rocks and brush and travel. that all
so if there is a claim that predates the forest service then the road to it is public. also any route use to transfer goods and services and peple to and from these places. in other words there is a network of roads that we should have to use through the forest.
i have chosen not to help these folks with their cases. let them pay the high priced fellers. did not read enough to figure where or how the guns got there but i see one land owner makeing a threat. mmd does not cover them unless they are in there home (building) and there is an intruder. someone tresspassing would not qualify and again these folks are just plain stupid and there is no reason whatsoever to waist yer time with em , unless you have the funds to drag the stupid butts through court

Posted by flexychevy (Member # 5) on October 21, 2003 04:54 AM :

By the way.I checked and his brother is not an employee of the ZUnion Pacific.

Posted by Joker (Member # 30) on October 22, 2003 01:06 PM :

They found the person responsible.... [Thumbsup]

http://www.colorado4x4.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000113#000001

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 22, 2003 06:17 PM :

they have known from the get go who the person is. i can promise you that if it was any of us we would be arrested firest and then have things sort out. seems to me that the person responsable is getin some special treatment. plus it looks as though the fs will most likely let the damage stand. at least for a long enough time that there will be more trouble in getin the stuff removed. this is bad my friends. the one area that has the road going through private property is ready to have the trees removed. since the property on either side of the road is private . the fs has nothing to do with it. if the land owner crys itll be up to the sheriff. folks have used the road for more than 20 and will testify to that fact. prescriptive easement!! would be a test case and might get a tresspass ticket. sorta doubt it though based on the way the county does not want to be involved.

Posted by redrover (Member # 566) on October 22, 2003 07:49 PM :

Ok,
so if it is a road, and it is public, but the land on each side is private, what is JUST the road was cleared. The felled trees would be left to lie on private land, yet the road was clear.

Would this be legal? I am guessing not. However I will say my opinion of this area again. I honestly regret the loss of any public trail or road. However, we in the community do not have far to look for the real individuals to pin the begining of this escalation on to.

I have seen way to many pictures of people posing off the trail in ditches, on rocks, on trees and other places reported to be in this area. Carnage itself has become a crapshoot as to what the trail really is.

This predicament is as old as civilization. The few ruin it for the rest of us. As I recall a similar issue was incured (private vs public) at chinaman's in the last few years. That was resolved peacefully. You know why I think that is? Because chinaman's has a higher entry fee than the LHC/Carnarge area. You have to drive a few hours to get there, and if you don't trailer, you have to have a well built enough machine to make it through, and carry you safely back the two hours.

LHC is close to town, and is a very MODERATE trail, meaning that almost anyone can go up there. We all know what happens when almost anyone CAN go up something, they usually do. When the numbers of people using an area go up, the descrepancy ratio of responsible wheelers to morons goes way up. This leads to trail damage, which leads to a bad reputation for the responsible wheeling community.

I am not in favor of what happened. However, it is very easy for me to see why this happened. It was still wrong, and it should still be punished.

I would gladly volunteer my time, and that of my scout troops to help improve the relationship between the land owners and the off-road community (of which I am one). I would even volunteer to bring a 110v welder up to help make PERMANENT signage warning to "stay on the trail - private property", if someone will bring a generator.

Bottom line, in an escalated situation, someone or something has to give first. What the tree feller (pun intended) did was heinous. However, I have not read that many posts of "what can I do to CALM the situation, so clearer heads (USFS, County, whomever) can prevail.

j

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 22, 2003 07:58 PM :

the first part is correct. the trees would need to be cut on what is obviuosly "the road". that section of the tree. because the land on both sides is private that would need to be respected and left alone. as for the signage. it was to be done just slightly below where the damage is now and the fs had asked that the sign not be erected just before this damage was done.
thanks for the offer. i think all the offers should be made to the fs folks

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 22, 2003 08:23 PM :

"Seeing why it happened"
does not excuse it in ANY way whatsoever. The trails up there are well established, and as for describing Lefthand as "moderate" I don't think you've been up there too much. Moderate it's not, and despite the increased popularity of OHVing in the last few years, very few people ever MAKE it to Fairview Peak without a good rig and some talent driving it. The area was ALREADY MAPPED OUT and had been assigned trail numbers and was ready to have the signs installed when this all happened. I SAW THE MAPS. They had included all of the traditionally used trails, and had singletrack, ATV-wide, and number signs ready to go.
Then the maps got changed, and before the Fairview Peak area signage was completed, THIS HAPPENED. I might not be the brightest person on the planet but I think I know when I smell a rat.
Because of the "locals" who complained? There's only 3 or 4 cabins up there, and TWO main landowners at the area in question. Just whose interests are the NATIONAL Forest Service standing up for? I like to believe in things like "rights" and "justice" and "rule of Law", but sometimes the realities of "good ole boy" politics happen.
Geez, I thought I moved away from the Deep South 30 years ago to get away from that kind of thing.
I guess that for now we just have to wait and see if they decide to "do the right thing", or find some way to take them to court if they don't. JD

[ October 22, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: cleanbike ]

Posted by cleanbike (Member # 3025) on October 22, 2003 08:34 PM :

quote:
Originally posted by redrover:

I have seen way too many pictures of people posing off the trail in ditches, on rocks, on trees and other places reported to be in this area. Carnage itself has become a crapshoot...

j

That's why the 4WD community was trying to do something about it with the recently completed work down at "the meadow", and yearly cleanups, and DONATIONS of both time and money to this area. Which makes it all the more sad and disgusting that something like this mass-closure would happen at this time. In this manner. JD

[ October 22, 2003, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: cleanbike ]

Posted by redrover (Member # 566) on October 23, 2003 06:41 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by cleanbike:

quote:
Originally posted by redrover:

I have seen way too many pictures of people posing off the trail in ditches, on rocks, on trees and other places reported to be in this area. Carnage itself has become a crapshoot...

j
That's why the 4WD community was trying to do something about it with the recently completed work down at "the meadow", and yearly cleanups, and DONATIONS of both time and money to this area. Which makes it all the more sad and disgusting that something like this mass-closure would happen at this time. In this manner. JD

That is exactly my point. This was not a closure by ANY administrative or governing body. This was an act of vandalism.

I am coming in late here, but who besides VB and one club is actually working with the usda (fs). Where is the email campaign? Where is the phone campaign? Where is the letter campaign? People need to stop whining on here and get off their duffs and act! If I upset someone with this post, so be it. However, those would be upset at me, would do more by emailing and calling their congressman, county official, and governor. This is environmental damage. By the same token, all you have to do is look at Carnarge, and you could say the same thing. There are OBVIOUS routes where people have left the trail continually in order to seek new challenges, while the whole time complaining about another citizens encroachment on their public right to a trail. Ironic isn't it.

I have been on left hand 4 times in 3 years (including clean-ups). Each time, I can understand why a severe foot trail advocate would be upset.

Boslough, if you quote me, you'd better quote the whole post, not a snippet. As I fully believe that I have a government given right to be on a public road, and a private one for that matter with permission or an understanding from the owner. Why don't you look up what happened down near Medano Pass. That area survived for years with a high traffic PUBLIC road through PRIVATE land.

j

Posted by redrover (Member # 566) on October 23, 2003 11:26 AM :

quote:
Originally posted by cleanbike:
"Seeing why it happened"
does not excuse it in ANY way whatsoever. The trails up there are well established, and as for describing Lefthand as "moderate" I don't think you've been up there too much.

I agee completely with this action not being excusable. Remember, I described it as HEINOUS.

Moderate means different things to different people. I consider things like spring creek, chinaman's and carnage (all but the water fall) moderate.

j

Posted by redrover (Member # 566) on October 27, 2003 11:35 AM :

BTT

VB- others

Where can we go for the email addresses that we need to solicate for our voices to be heard as well.

I am sure we can come up with a few hundred emails if we try hard.

j

Posted by vb (Member # 1196) on October 27, 2003 07:23 PM :

congressman udall,
i would tell him that his 2477 bill is misguided to say the least and that these are our roads and not to try to rewrite history. that we want the area open and soon
the boulder rangers phone is 303 541 2500
i would start calling the sheriff and tell them that these are indeed county roads and that we can supply the maps from the county to prove that these roads were in existance for over 100 years
tell him the the forest is one thing but that the road is quite another
call the commissioners
call the govna
i mean call anyone that will listen and ask for email addy's and phone numbers and names
be a pain. i just took today off to run around the county and chase stuff so i haveta get work done the next few days
i could use some volinteers to hunt up these contacts
thanks folks

Posted by Breck4x4-John McCallister (Member # 1207) on October 27, 2003 07:51 PM :

I know this has been posted before, but with the questions being asked on who to contact hopefuuly this will help:
Americans fo Responsible Recreational Access
You can sign up to get info on Bills and Proposals that are being considered in your area. This site could be added to UFWDA, BRC, and Tread Lightly that should be checked every so often.

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