NOVICE BOATER RESOURCES
This page was last updated August 14, 2000
This question could best be answered by stating what you will NOT find in this FAQ; an explicit answer as to what boat you should buy. The purpose of this FAQ is not to recommend any particular brand or style of boat, new or used, within a given price range. What you will find in the FAQ are some guidelines as to what questions you should ask and consider as a new or novice boater as well as the answers to common "what is this?" "how does this work?" questions. Any opinions as to brands, parts, locations, and costs are strictly personal opinions of contributors for the benefit of education and enlightenment to the thoughts of others. There is no advertising in the FAQ (real or perceived).
The information in this FAQ was gleaned from many sources and individuals. It is far from complete and could never be considered to be complete. Where information is provided by users, credit is given. Likewise, online and documented sources are referenced. General opinion makes up everything else. Additional data sources can be found in the USEFUL Links and Recommended Reading section of the WEB page.
In a word, NO. We are not talking strict life-saving procedures here. This is a clearing house for basic knowledge the new or novice boater may find useful when considering or operating a new boat. We fully expect, and completely recommend, all new and novice boaters enroll in USCG or US Power Squadron safe boating courses. In addition, each novice or new boater, as well as you old salts out there, should enroll in a few Red Cross CPR and basic first aid courses. When you are out on the sunny afternoon and trouble strikes, it will be YOUR COOL HEAD and SKILLS that keep a minor disappointment from turning into a full fledged disaster. Remember, many states consider the captain in command responsible for all aboard. TAKE THAT RESPONSIBILITY SERIOUSLY. It is very real.
A copy of this FAQ is maintained at www.lisaandscott.com/NoviceBoating.htm
This is the most basic of all questions, one which we hope we can help you answer. There is no right or wrong answer. We have all heard the old cliché's "A boat is a hole in the water your pour money into," "The only thing better than owning a boat is having a friend or family member who owns a boat." The fact of the matter is for most of us, boats are toys. You won't be driving it to work, you won't be using it to haul groceries, and you probably won't be living on it. IF you plan to live aboard you will need more than this FAQ (stay tuned). Boats are big, glamorous toys. Some will say there is no justification for owning one.
To such nay sayers I reply "bollocks." In life, you have to spend money on something entertaining. Be it hobbies, horseback riding, cars, stereos, movies, travel, you name it. For each activity there is a cost. When asked how we justify the cost of our boat, we reply "We don't." We learn new skills, learn a lot about each other, meet new friends, have some adventures, and dread each Sunday night when we have to clean up for the weekend and head home.
If you think you want a boat, and if you have the retirement fund hidden away and growing as well as the kids college funds and health insurance is paid up, why NOT get one? Just be sure you have the time to enjoy it otherwise those monthly payments may very well not be worth it to you any longer. Once you get the bug and have a few days out, you will wonder how you ever lived without one.
Here is a following bit of advice: You will lose money on your boat. Some faster than others. Maintenance, storage and slippage fees, etc. It is a money losing proposition. However, this is the cost of the hobby. Whether it is worth it or not depends on you and your family.
Whether or not you can afford a boat is up to you. In general, a well kept and cared for boat is not as expensive as you may think. On the other hand, an abused boat bought used without a good marine survey prior to purchase can be a complete money pit that you never recover from.
Monthly costs vary greatly depending on the boat, how you plan to keep it (trailored or in the water) and where you are located. In general, the larger more complex the boat the greater the monthly expense. If you have not found out already, many services for boats are tied into its length. You will see slips offered on size (the larger the more expensive), cleaning and waxing based on a per foot basis, storage and shrink wrapping costed on a per foot basis, transient slippage (think of these as the motels you stay at while traveling around) are also given on a per foot cost. As you can see, the larger the boat, the larger the costs.
Monthly costs are much to variable to provide any meaningful list here. However, create yourself a table as you travel around and try to fill the blanks of the following general costs (divide by 12 where necessary for monthly cost):
| Monthly Payment: | Yearly pull out fee for cleaning and/or storage (figure twice a year) |
| Monthly Slippage fee (your boats in water home) | Yearly winterization fee |
| Insurance (required for most boat loans) | Yearly engine maintenance costs |
| State Registration fees and tax | Gasoline (ask the dealer for gallons per hour estimate. Assume 1.50 per gallon of gas and consider the fuel tank size). |
| Costs for yearly bottom painting (if stored in water) | Costs for yearly out drive servicing (if applicable) |
| Shrink wrapping for storage (figure $9/ft) if applicable | Cleaning supplies and equipment (as needed, see what your dealer or seller includes) |
| Electricity (if your boat is kept in the water) |
Once you have a total figured, multiple it by 1.5. This should give you some indication of what you are looking at.
I should note, when we went through this exercise everything checked out and we decided that we could afford the boat on a monthly basis. However, we neglected to figure that most vendors don't work on a monthly basis. At least for the initial setup. Everybody wanted a years payment to setup the account or rent the space. As it turned out, everybody had their hand out for a big payment. Once we realized this we were in too deep and had to tighten our belts for a few months to recoup our savings.
When looking around for marinas and dealers, look into all inclusive pricing plans. Our marina has a package that includes he slip, electricity, yearly pull out and storage, bottom painting, engine and out drive service as well as full winterization for one flat fee. It may be cheaper to do things elsewhere, but the flat fee makes budgeting the money much much easier.
A marine survey is the functional equivalent of having a mechanic look at a car before you buy. Marine surveyors are trained in the skills of boat construction and function. For a fee, usually on a per foot basis, a surveyor will go over your potential purchase with a fine tooth comb and identify potentially costly imperfections within the boat. Often, the recommended fixes can be passed along to the seller as a condition of purchase and, if the seller agrees, the cost of the survey can be recouped on that alone.
Don't think you, as mister first time boat buyer with a degree in auto mechanics, can perform this same service. Boats are very complex in design and construction. If you don't know exactly what you are looking at or how to probe for the important knowledge you can wind up with a gold plated turkey in your slip or driveway. The surveyor is your paid expert who's job is to give you a fair and detached review of the boat. IF for no other reason, get a marine survey as a piece of mind to ensure you did not get blinded by the boat buying dementia that over takes us all as we hunt for the ideal boat.
A debate has appeared from time to time on the merits of getting a marine survey on a new boat as well as an old boat. The arguments are that, unlike a used boat, new boats are an unknown quantity. New boats have not been taken out, wringed out, and bumped around to expose its flaws. It follows that a well kept used boat will have been pre-stressed and the bugs worked out. If this is true, then a survey of a new boat as well as an old boat sounds like a good idea. However, I am not so sure I agree. To me, a survey is meant to identify large problems before they get worse at my nickel. Bugs and kinks will be present no matter what (new or used) and manufacturers warranties should cover major problems within the first five years. So, if getting a survey of your new boat makes you feel comfortable, go for it. Don't let a dealer dissuade you if that is something you need. After all, you are spending a lot of money, a few more hundred dollars isn't going to sink the deal (excuse the pun).
You sure ask the tough questions don't you!
This question pops up all the time. Depending on whom you talk to you will get very different answers with several good arguments. And no wonder! Go price a new boat and you might faint from the sticker shock. Go to a local used boat yard and WOW!, look at all the boat I can get for a fraction of the cost! With deals like this out there, why does any even bother to buy new?? What's a buyer to do?
Welp, the answer is elusive and one size definitely does not fit all. Generally speaking, a well maintained, surveyed, used boat can be the cheapest way for the new boater to happily enter the hobby. The boat is pre-stressed removing most of niggling bugs and the original owner has eaten most of the depreciation allowing you to jump right in and go. Sounds simple, right? Welp, it isn't. Used boats can be the surest way to an early draining of your bank account. Unless you know the owner of the used boat you may never be quiet sure how well the boat was treated. A good survey is your best defense but even that won't stop the routine maintenance costs and other needs that naturally come with age and for the really nasty possibilities you won't have a manufacturers warranty to back you up. I needn't described what a truly worst case scenario can be.
If you plan to buy used, some say the depreciation curves starts to flatten out a bit after 5 to 8 years. I heard 5 and tend to believe that number, so long as the boat is well maintained. Remember that in this time frame you are starting to look at exhaust risers and other serious maintenance costs, especially if the boat was kept in salt water. To find a good used boat, watch the papers and local boating sales boards. Be patient and you never know when you might find that 2 year old boat the owner just wants to get rid of at a loss. Be prepared to put money down quickly. There are other boaters out there and a deal of a life time won't wait for you to go home and mull it over for a week or two. Even though you might put a contract down,, make a condition of the sale subject to a marine survey and one water test. If there is nothing to hide this shouldn't be an issue.
New boats, on the other hand, offer the buyer a turn-key way of entering the hobby. You walk in, get the sales pitch, pick your model after the obligatory "special price reduction," and off you go. Pick a dealer that is worth their salt (another discussion altogether) and they could easily take you from display to in the water and cruising with next to no interaction from you. This is definitely a convenience for the new boater who may not know what equipment is needed, what papers need to be filled out, the person who does the lettering on the transom, financing arrangements, etc. But what about the price? Why so expensive?
You got me. Perhaps someone in the know could give us a break down. New boats off the lot are more expensive than the used boats out there. With the convenience of the dealer ship you get the prize of first owner and the primary care giver to your new vessel. From here on out, you can baby the boat as much as you like. If you plan on having only one boat for a while, your care of the boat can extend its life and give you many years of trouble free use. Get a questionable used boat and you might find yourself learning more about marine maintenance than you like.
The new boats come with warranties. Usually big problems within the first five years can be handled without too much of a drain on your bank account. Minor issues may require a bit more involvement from you. Sounds backwards doesn't it? In actuality, it isn't really. If your hull cracks or engine quits, that is a big problem and most reputable dealers and manufacturers will respond quickly to get you back under way. It doesn't look good for a brand new boat to be falling apart, so they might make you a priority. However, if a piece of trim falls off, why not just get a screw driver and put it back on yourself? I can almost guarantee you will not be put at the top of the service roster for non-critical issues.
A question also comes up are you sure you really want a boat? I once heard a story of a person who really wanted a motor bike. He finally got it, took it out on the interstate and had the <snip> scared out of him. He sold the bike the next day. Boating can be a similar event for others. You think you want a boat, never really been out, don't know what to expect, finally get a boat...and realize you hate it! Now what? Some will say if you bought used, you can now sell it for about what you got for it (which was less than a new boat would cost anyway) and be done with it. If you bought new, these same people may say that after a years use the depreciation will really cost you to get out of the boat. I suppose that is true. Of course this depends on who you sell it to, what they are willing to pay, and how much the new model is going for. Over all, a good used boat may win this argument because you ante up less to get it in the first place.
I was speaking to my dealer the other day and he made an interesting point. Much of the cost of selling a boat is controlled by how much a new model costs. If you bought a boat one year, then the next year that model is 4000.00 more, your used boat just went up in price and depreciation is offset. This thinking may be valid, but implies the next years model will go up in price and also that the economy and boating industry will also be strong. Get a boat one year, have a market crash the next, you might not be able to see your boat at all, let alone near the purchase price (This would apply to the used boats out there also).
So you can see, the new versus used boat question is very difficult to answer. What you choose will depend greatly on your interests in boating, your mechanical skills, your willingness to take on the potential burden of maintenance, and how much value you place in warranties.
Discussions on the USENET are full of the "what boat should I buy?" question and answer sessions. Here is one such exchange that is short, but provides some good information [click here]
There was a recent (8/13/00) discussion on the USENET regarding the new versus used debate. Click here to get to this link to this threaded discussion.
Well, yes I did. The fact of the matter is, like cars and real estate, each dealer can be either very good, very bad, or somewhere in between. Our marina owner has told me of some sad stories where the buyer of a new boat suddenly finds he can't get on the service roster or warranty items are debated. Other times the dealer won't travel to where the boat is and requests you bring the boat to them. Not too bad for a trailored boat, but if you have something larger and are a good cruising distance from the dealer, it can make for a bad situation. Sometimes getting the manufacturer involved can fix this situation, other times even they refuse to honor a warranty or recognize a faulty product. At that point, you have to rely on your tenacity and stamina to get things fixed.
Several users in online forums have reported such sad stories as well as other not-so-good encounters with dealers such as rudeness, lack of responsiveness, and out right dishonesty. I'm not about to stick my neck out and name any names. This would be unfair to you the reader as well as the dealer. One way to find a good new boat dealer or used boat broker (for the purposes of buying a boat, they don't do service support) is make a trip to local marinas and find people who own boats similar to the one you are interested in. Ask them where they got it, what they think of the service, and any other question you can imagine. While you are at it, ask them if they can recommend a salesman they worked with. You may not get the same stellar service, but at least you might find people who have been around for a while and have a reputation to protect. Some people go to online sources and ask about the dealer they are considering dealing with. This may net you a few answers, but be sure to consider them with the entire body of knowledge you accumulate. One bad opinion doesn't mean anything. One stellar opinion doesn't mean anything. You are looking for a trend of satisfied or disgruntled customers. That will be your best indicator.
Boats are one of the most cherished possessions a person can own. To ask this question invites a hail of very deep felt opinions based as much on personal opinion as on fact. Ask it in an online forum and you will likely be the creator of one of the most puerile flame wars you have ever seen. For these reasons, and my desire to keep this FAQ rather neutral, I won't get into which is best (to which there is no answer) as the answer depends on the user and the needs (see a trend developing here?). The best boat is the one you can afford, take you and your crew out safely, return you safely, holds together well within the environment it was designed to operate in, and makes you smile when you see it again. Comments and opinions from others that you bought a cheap piece of crap or over spent on an over rated, over priced vessel should just roll off your back.
Having said that, there are differences between boat makes and models. Just like there are differences between Toyota and Chevrolet there are differences between boat brands. So how do you tell the difference? Well, price is one indicator. Boats cost money to make. Because one is cheaper than another doesn't mean that manufacturer is out to make your day better. More properly, that is the market niche they are filling. If a boat costs less than another there is probably a reason that has something to do with how they put it together, the amount they intend to produce and sell, and other ledger sheet reasons. This does not necessarily make one "better" than the other. Each brand has its place, its fans, and its detractors. Learn to live with it.
Now, how do you know if the boat you are considering is something that will fill the criteria I listed above? Word of mouth is one possibility. But suppose you aren't in a circle of boat owners? Magazine reviews is another source of information, but I have found them to be more useful as light reading than an information packed review from stem to stern. Not to mention, you are taking the word of a reviewer and one can always debate the objectiveness of people reviewing products submitted by their biggest advertisers. Also, does your needs and likes jive with those of the author? I'll let you in on the perfect way to find the best boat for you, here it is. Pick out one or two models you like. Learn something about them from the dealer and magazine reviews, request an on water test drive (any dealer that thinks you are serious will gladly offer this). Then, go down to nearby marinas and scope out a few boats like the one you are interested in, both brand and make. Then ask the owners what they think of the boat, compare notes, ask questions. So long as you don't catch them trying to leave for the morning or trying to pack up and head home for the evening, most boaters will be glad to gab up a storm. You will get a very candid and usable response from such dialogues. Much better than by asking people online or relying on reviewers in magazines. Not only will you get a feeling for the quality of the boats based on real world usage, you will get the chance to see if what you are considering is actually right for the area.
There are several styles of boats you might be interested in. Smaller boats are often built on planing hulls and are designed to skim across the surface of the water. That is, their hulls are designed so that forward motion creates lift by the water which reduces the wetted surface and hence drag. Larger boats are built on displacement hulls. These hulls are designed to move through the water. That is, underway they are supported by the buoyancy of the water the hull displaces. Within these classes you have sub classes that are often tailored to a particular need. Deep V hulls provide a stable ride in big water and are often used in offshore fishing boats while multi-hulls can further reduce drag and make for an even faster ride. Further discussion of hull sub-types is beyond the scope of this introductory FAQ.
*************
Update 3/26/00
Skipper posted in the rec.boats forum:
"There's quite a difference between full and the
semi-displacement hulls you failed to mention."
Thanks for picking up my oversight. Semi-Displacement hulls are just as they sound, a middle point between full displacement hulls and planing hulls. Semi-displacement hulls are common in larger power boats (30+ ft). These hulls attempt to combine the speed of a true planing hull with the sea worthiness of a displacement hull. These hulls will not achieve the best characteristics of either extreme, but will provide a compromise between their features.
*************
Different boat types appeal to different people based on their intended usage. Fishermen may want a wide open cockpit to have room to fight stripers whereas those who plan to entertain may prefer additional seating and a dive platform for swimming. Your dealer will point you in the direction of the models offered by different brands to accommodate your needs. If you are looking at used boats and want a simple description of different types of boats, here ya go!
| Boat Type | Description | Use |
| Open | Small; open hull; possibly a steering console; no cabin space; typically small. | Row boats; small fishing or crabbing boats; usually and outboard motor. |
| Pontoon Boat | Flat platform supported across two cylindrical pontoons; canopy provides shape in heat; large sitting and/or standing area; outboard engine. | Designed for protected waters; perfect boat for day trip and entertaining for large groups of people and families; wide beams can make transport difficult; found in many lake environments. |
| Bow Rider | Similar to open only slightly lager and more finished; a rear cockpit and helm station separated by a bulkhead from an open bow sitting area; typically not more than 30 feet long (and that is big for a bow rider). Can be outboard or I/O. | Day boats; water skiing; wake boarding; picnicking; embayment and river cruising; light fishing (due to interior finishing). |
| Cuddy Cabin | Similar to a bow rider is length and beam; front open seating area is covered creating a small cabin capable of sleeping one or two close friends and storage; some small cooking or bathroom facilities can be worked in. Can be outboard or I/O | Day cruising; short overnight cruises; picnicking; water skiing; wake boarding; embayment and river cruising; some blue water (ocean, large lake) capabilities. |
| Pocket Cruiser; Cruiser; Express Cruiser | Mobile homes or campers on the water; covered cabin that houses living quarters; a galley; marine head; and storage. Varies in size from a low of about 24 feet up to over 50 feet. Can have any engine combination imaginable. | Home on the water; long distance travels, overnights; light fishing (due to interior finishing); entertaining; picnicking; any use imaginable. Not really good for water skiing or wakeboarding due to size and draft. |
| Center Console | Similar to open but more finished; steering, bait, and facilities located in console in center of boat; open deck around console allows for easy motion and fishing; often outfitted with a deep V hull; vary in size up to 30+ feet. Often outfitted with single our twin outboard engines. | Very popular fishing boat at the current time; deep V hull provides stability and smoothes bumpy rides out in open water; capable of distant offshore fishing. |
| Go-Fast or Sport Boats | Narrow in beam elongated planing boats capable of impressive speed on the water; single or multi-hulls; single or multi-engine; designed for speed. Can have any combination of engines. | Sporty day boats; some finished for overnight stays; sports cars on the water. |
| Trawlers | Large, displacement or semi-planing hulls; house on water; deep hulls provide enhanced stability in open water; maximizes room and functionality at expense of speed; diesel engines provide for very long range. | Big boats for travel, overnights, long distance and ocean cruising; live aboard capabilities. |
Here is another widely debated question. Chances are, unless you are looking at boats 30 feet and down, you won't have to deal with it. Likewise, if you are looking at large boats, say 42 feet and up, you may not encounter this question. Most all small boats are gasoline powered. Most large boats are diesel powered. The boats in between may have you scratching your head. Diesel engines tend to give more torque and have their optimum operating range in lower RPM's. Gasoline engines have lower torque (all else being equal) and have their power band at higher RPMs. Therefore, the trawlers and larger cruisers use efficient diesel engines to get very long range. On the other hand, go-fast boaters will take two or three gasoline engines and rev'em up way high to fly across the water.
Are diesel engines cheaper to operate in the long run? Some say yes. They lack the ignition systems of gasoline engines and run at lower RPMs, so they are not likely to burn themselves up. However, they do cost a lot to maintain when you have to maintain them. If you do a lot of long distance cruising these might be for you. If you want a small run about for day use in near by rivers, embayments, and lakes, gasoline engines should do you just fine.
Engines, engines, ENGINES! Alright, the stuff that guys like. They burn fuel and make noise, what's not to like? Boats are configured with engines to best help them achieve their design goals and allow the designer to work with a particular layout. Very often, a boat will be offered with one standard power configuration. After that, the buyer can choose what they want (single or twin engine, diesel or gasoline, inboard or I/O, etc). Before we go any further, lets describe some of the different engines and where they might be found:
| Engine Type/Propulsion System | Distinguishing Features | Example Boat Type | Comments |
| Outboard - 2 cycle | An engine that sits a top a drive train and turns a prop as a single unit, hangs off boats transom. | Run abouts, offshore shore fishing boats; pontoon boats | The old stand by; gasoline is mixed with oil for lubrication; high revving; can be smoky and smelly; widely used, cheap; engine can be lifted out of water when not in use reducing corrosion. |
| Outboard - 4 cycle | An engine that sits a top a drive train and turns a prop as a single unit, hangs off boats transom | Same as above. | Newer technology; uses 4 cycle engines and "neat" gasoline; cleaner burning; expensive; some say the future of outboards, engine can be lifted from water when not in use limiting corrosion. |
| Inboard/Outboard (I/O) | A marin-ized auto engine set in the bilge of a boat attached to a stern drive unit; engine is inside, propulsion unit is outside. | Cruisers, go-fast boats; bow riders, cuddy cabins; ubiquitous. | The standard power system on many boats; stern drive is made up of complex parts of dissimilar metals which can lead to corrosion and high maintenance costs; engine is easy to service; quiet; capable of high speeds; can be lifted is water gets shallow and trimmed for best performance; maneuverable. |
| Inboard | An inboard marine engine set in bilge of boat, power is directed straight out to propellers via a transmission and propeller shafts. | Ski boats, most all large boats. | Standard power on larger boats and boats where the propeller is a danger to swimmers (such as a ski boat); lack or stern drive unit reduces maintenance costs; propellers cannot be lifted in shallow water; steering requires skillful use of slip stream and rudder. |
| V-Drive | In-board engines are set in bilge backwards, a transmission on the bow side of the engine directs power back to stern like the inboards. | Newer cruisers, ski boats. | Newer engine layout finding favor with designers. Engines set way back can allow for large cockpits; power, handling and maneuverability are similar to inboards though balancing of the boat may be different. |
| Jet Drive | An inboard engine that drive an impellor in a drive tunnel; water jet acts as propulsion system. | Small sport boats; personal water craft. | A niche market engine and propulsion type for smaller sport boats. Lack of exposed propeller blades makes for safer in water environment; maneuverable. |
The engine you decide to go with will match the needs of your boat. It seems to me that many of the smaller boats (say, 20 feet and less) are usually outboard. Switching the engines out the to back allows for cockpit room. Not to mention the hulls of the smaller boats may not have bilges large enough for an inboard engine and still allow an unhindered walk around. If you look at many of the new center console fishing boats they all seem to have dual outboards. Obviously there is something the fishermen like in this configuration.
Once you get into the 23 foot to 32 foot size range ( there abouts) the I/O option becomes ubiquitous. This is the preferred drive train that allows for extra space in cabins and a larger engine than outboards. Not to mention the engine is a converted automobile engine which is comparatively cheaper to build and maintain than a complex outboard engine.
Here is a discussion regarding the outboard versus I/O question that occurred on the USENET:
Andy asked:
>On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:51:21 -0500, "ajheller" <ajheller@[removed].com>
>wrote:
>
>I'm only familiar with outboard motors and
am now considering and i/o for an
>18' runabout. (I'll be buying
used). What are the pros and cons of the i/o
>system and is there
anything that would make an i/o potentially less
>reliable than an
outboard?
>Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Please respond
to the group or
>to me directly at: ajheller@[removed].com
>
>Thanks. Andy
Mike Seiler, frequent newsgroup poster and marine mechanic responded:
>I'll give the short, fast answer.
>
>The most obvious I/O
advantage would be price.
>Another would be that it's easier to work
on...for people that are
>familiar with working on cars, that is.
>Personally, I'd rather work on an outboard any day...but that's just me
>:p
>
>The outboard is lighter and gives you more room
inside the boat.
>That difference might be appreciated in a smaller boat
like that.
>If it's a particular used boat that you already picked out,
and you're
>comfortable with the space...this isn't as important.
>
>I/O's cannot be neglected in cold weather. Outboards are
>self-draining, when in upright position. An I/O must be properly
>drained in freezing weather, to avoid cracking.
>
>Then
there's always plain old personal preference.
>Is there a reason you've
always gone with outboards?
>
>As always, if you're unfamiliar
with it, I'd recommend paying a
>marine mechanic a few bucks to go check
it out.
>
>Mike
>Mike@SeilerMarine.com
Back to Top
>I know this topic has been discussed before but I was not interested at
>the time and did not pay attention. Now things have changed. Just bought
>a 30 ft boat. Need to get insurance but don't know where to start. Do I
>call a bunch of companies to get the best rate? How about reliability,
>service etc.? How do I check them out?
Author and newsgroup poster Chuck Gould (gould0738@aol.com) offered the following advice:
Everybody in the NG will recommend their own insurance company and have a dozen
reasons and anecdotes proving that company is the "best".
Some principles remain the same regardless of company used.
Most important of all is to secure a policy with an agreed upon hull value. In
case of total loss, your insurance company pays the insured value...EOS.
Some boating claims get handled like auto insurance situations. These can be
nightmares. The value the boat was insured for is completely disregarded while
the adjustors and your expensive legal staff
wrangle for weeks about how much the boat has "depreciated".
[snip remainder]
Rich Stern (rbstern@aol.com) another frequent newsgroup contributer followed up with the following advice:
In addition to Chuck's excellent advice:
- After you've got a quote, ask for a copy of their standard policy and read
it. Better still, make sure you understand it after you've read it.
- Insurance companies' financial condition are rated by Moody's. Check
www.moodys.com.
This question comes up from time to time. For the most part, it is not an agonizing decision for the new boat buyer but it is an interesting feature to evaluate. Rec.Boats poster Rick Hughes as the following question:
>For inshore use - skiing, kneeboarding. -
>This second question is if for example I went for a 4.3L EFI engine is
>it worth paying extra to get the duoprop drive ? what advantages do
>these give, are they serious advantages on 20' (or less) hulls ?
>Rick
The equipment Rick is asking about is the outdrive. This is the unit that hangs off the transome of an I/O powered boat (see above) which transfers the energy from the engine to the prop. The prop turns, pressure differentials are created by the pitch of the prop. blades and a slip stream is created at slow speed. As you start to move forward, and thanks to the fact water is effectively a non-compressable medium, the prop blades begin to "bite" the water and the forward motion is due to the props turning through the water like a screw through wood.
Outdrives come in several different makes and models, but for the purpose of the casual boater they are likely to be presented with a choice of either Mercruiser or Volvo Penta. I make no statement as to which make is better, they are both very good. The principal difference between models is the size of the blade they can swing (the torque and horsepower they are designed to handle) and the number of props they can turn on a single shaft.
"Single shaft you say??"
That's right! Lets step back to the mechanics of what goes on in the water. The single prop turns and the boat moves forward. When the boat moves forward, the hull, keel, and outdrive act to stabilize the boat in the direction you are going. Turn the outrdrive (while at speed) and you create a pressure differential across the outdrive unit and the boat turns. These effects are similar to the vertical stabilizer effects on an airplane. While cruising these influences help to control the 'equal and opposite reaction' effects that the single prop turning in the water will create. But some 'torque steer' can show up requiring trimming or compensation from the driver. Large amounts of torque steer can result in a less than straight track through the water. When you are going slow you do not have the motion of the water past your boat to stabilize it. The engine is not torqued up at idle speeds so torque steer is not a big problem. However, you do have a paddle-wheel in the water turning and pulling the stern of your boat to the side. Give the boat a little power and the boat stern will tend to pull in the direction of prop rotation.
These are situations any single prop boat will encounter. Compensating for them is something that experience and the guidance of a good book will help alleviate. But is there a better way? Flash back to WWII and naval warfare. The torpedo was developed to guide through the water to deliver a warhead. The long cylindrical shape of the torpedo design could not be powered by a single prop. Why? Sir Issac Newton as listed above....each action creates and equal and opposite reaction. Put a single prop on the back of a long tub in the water and it would likely just sit in the water with little motion and spin along its long axis (negating inertia and mass effects of course). Solution...two props on a single shaft! Each prop. would cancel the torque and paddle wheel effects of the other for a true non-spinning track.
Volvo saw this idea and brought it to the public marine world with their Duo Prop setup. Mercruiser followed suit with their Bravo III outdrive. Each very capable and in very wide production.
After talking these up so much, why wouldn't all boats have a Duo Prop or Bravo III outdrive? Couple of reasons, weight, cost, and power requirements are probably the biggest. They are complex devices and have their maintenance and upkeep requirements. The complexity to manufacture of course results in a higher price. There are two props to damage or loose, not one. They are heavy which can affect the balancing of smaller boats. And they take more ommph from the engine to turn effectively.
What are their beneifts? To summarize the above, truer tracking at cruising speeds and less prop walk and slow speeds. Also, the extra blades help to bit the water and give a better "hole shot." Note: Hole shot is the process of adding power to pop out of the water (hole) and get up on plane. Very important for water skiiers.
Are they worth it? Depends. I would say yes if your boat is designed with one in mind. They cost more and are more to maintain and operate, but the improvements in boat handling make up for these short coming in my opinion. Your situation, and opinion, may be different. So water test if you have the capability.
What better way to spend the day, a few friends, a few sandwiches, some sun, this is what pleasure boating is all about! Your friends want to help out with some gas money or a few drinks to help cover costs. Before you take that money, think twice. A boater cannot take passengers for pay unless they have proper certifications from the US Coast Guard. That is, they have to be a licensed captain to take passengers for profit. In some ways, this means the steak dinner you get as compensation or the donations for gas mean you are being paid and this could be running the risk of assuming much responsibility on the water. Whereas the intent of the law may not mean to ruin your fun and the sharing of expenses of the day (no profits from the use of your boat), in old days of a few years ago you couldn't take payment of any kind from your passengers. Peggie Hall of HallGroup Inc. noted that:
"That used to be true...and the IRS also viewed anything you
accepted--even "you bring the sandwiches, we'll bring the beer"--as
taxable income."
Recently there was a discussion on rec.boats regarding this topic. As some of this gets into legal realms I will not post the opinions of the articles or respondents here. (How would you like to see your name posted next to legal advice if you were not an attorney? <grin>) Some participants report that so long as you take money for only daily boating expenses (no profits) you are not considered a captain for hire and thus do not need to be licensed. Chuck Tribolet posted a reference which can help clear things up
"Not any more. See Chapman, 62nd edition, Page 53."
Jeff C did some research and came up with what seems to be a complete response to this question. His summary can be found at Deja News by clicking in the following link:
The Skinny on sharing expenses
Whereas some very sharp people posted good knowledge on the issue of taking money from guests stating that it is basically ok to take money for daily expenses only (no profits), Jeff C posted some of the most sage advice:
"But I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one! The responsibility
lies with you to make sure you abide by the law."
Without offering legal opinion that is about the best you can hope for. Just understand that there is an issue. It may or may not be completely black and white. If you feel you may be opening yourself up to some litigation by your actions and are worried see an attorney or call the USCG for some clarification.
You are looking on the internet for an answer to this question? This is really something that your tax attorney, CPA, and tax advisor should be asked as everyone's situation will be different. It doesn't take too much thinking to realize that in this economy, with hot markets running up to record highs (and falling off at times also) that the money you put towards your boat may make more money in a good dot.com start up company or mutual fund than the interest you would pay on a loan. But how long can it last?
The question gets a bit interesting when you have 100K in your hand and the chance to borrow that 100K. Which do you choose? I have heard some people say that they accept a boat payment as part of life. No intention of ever really paying a boat off, it is just there. After a few years they step up to a bigger boat (and loan) and just keep going. If you can work this cost into your lifestyle and are content with never actually owning something, a finance deal is not too far out of the question. One mistake you can make is to get a loan that has too long of a term. If you are like many new boaters, you may step-up within the first 4-5 years of being in the lifestyle. If that is the case, and you have a 20 to 30 year loan, you may not have any equity built up to use for the step up. A bit of advice, get the shortest loan you can so you can maximize your principal payments and not have to eat so much interest.
If the boat you buy meets the spirit of the IRS classification as a second home, you might be able to write of the loan interest on your income taxes if you itemize your deductions. The boat would need to have a head, galley, and berth to meet these criteria. Beware and check with your tax advisor first! Even if you meet these criteria you need to have the proper type of loan and have your tax situation set up properly to take advantage of this! The March 2000 issue of BoatU.S. magazine had a brief write-up on this in the BoatU.S. reports column (page 6). In this column they detail the conditions needed to take advantage of the tax breaks. They say "The other criterion is that the loan must be secured, that is, the boat is held as collateral by the lending institution and could be foreclosed upon for nonpaymnet, i.e. a 'mortgage.' A line of credit does not qualify."
The April 2000 issue of MotorBoating & Sailing has a one page write up on this subject as well in their Financing Section (by Louisa Rudeen (page 196)). She adds that you can only declare one second home mortgage and that the secured loan cannot exceed one million dollars.
What this points out is, as with most facets of boating, almost everything is dealt with on a case by case basis. Getting a tax break is not a done deal just because you bought a mega-cruiser 2000 with a full service galley, king size bed, tennis courts, and jacuzzi.
Others say that the economy can't last for ever, these are toys, and you don't want to finance expensive toys. Better to own them outright which also puts you in a better position for trading in and limits the hit you take on depreciation.
There is no answer here for this question. Talk to a qualified advisor who knows your situation best and heed their advice.
A discussion was held in Rec. Boats regarding just this issue. You can click on the following link to see what the knowledgable contributors there had to say. If you use the internet, why not drop over to the USENET and see what the rec.boat folks are talking about? It is informative and a hoot!
Here are some personal opinions and suggestions based on what we look for based on our experience with our 27 ft. This is what is important to us:
Practical Suggestions for Practical Matters:
Practical Suggestions for the Assessing the Pesky Details:
Practical Suggestions From Someone Who's "Been There - Done That":