alt.mythology General FAQ ver. 1.11
Created: 10/12/99
Last Altered:
6/23/03 - added a few words about astrology and updated a couple
of e-mail addresses
10/24/01 - changed address & some URLs
6/8/01 - fixed a typo
3/6/01 - revised Robert Graves entry
7/14/00 - added two new general pics links & a new search
engine link to parts V.B.iii. and V.B.iv.
5/4/00 - added netiquette links to part I.C. & mythinglinks
URL to part V.B.i.
4/26/00 - ammended Dejanews link in I.C.
3/9/00 - added additional netiquette link to part I.C.
2/29/00 - added links to Greek myth family trees to
part V.B.i.; added question about Plato's Symposium to part
III; added Robert Graves entry to part VI.
2/25/00 - added Mircea Eliade entry to part VI.
1/12/00 - fixed a typo. You'll hardly notice.
12/5/99 - added more phoenix and Egyptian links
Contents:
Welcome to alt.mythology! In this newsgroup we discuss myths, legends,
their details, their historical contexts, their interconnections, etc. -
in short, just about everything concerning mythology. John A. Johnson
started this group back in December 1991. His charter for the newsgroup
serves as general guidelines for the scope of discussions here,
although we have since evolved to become more inclusive than the more
academic tone the charter may indicate:
Charter for alt.mythology
"The purpose of this group is to promote insights into, and
understanding of, human nature through the discussion of mythology,
where mythology is defined as the metaphorical expression of the
human psyche through symbols and images. While focusing primarily
on myths expressed as oral or written stories, the group also
welcomes material on dreams and on semiotics generally, as these
areas may further our understanding of myths. The group welcomes
articles written from any perspective, including, but not limited
to, the anthropological, philological, etiological, ethnological,
psychological, and personal viewpoints. The group encourages
contributions from any frame of thought, including, but not limited
to, ritualism, diffusionism, structuralism, parallelism,
psychoanalysis, and culturalism."
in addition Johnson adds:
"As you see, the group is open to a multitude of approaches to
mythology. I would like to make one thing clear, though: This
group is intended to be a forum for intellectual discussions
of mythology, and not for religious proselytizing or
flame-wars."
Proselytizing for or denegrating against someone's religion is
considered both rude and off-topic in this newsgroup. Assertions of the
imminence of the apocalypse, or that the characters in our myths were
extra-terrestrial aliens are also inappropriate. Discussing creation and
flood stories here is fine. Debating the truth of those stories is not,
and is better suited to talk.origins.
Similarly, astrology is, in general, off topic. While discussing
the relationships of myths to constellations, star and planetary names,
would be on topic, the use of such correspondences to make predictions
or retroactively cast the horoscopes of the deceased is best left to
alt.astrology.
- We won't do your homework for you. However, we might be able to
suggest some directions to take in your research if you have
specific questions.
- Be polite. Obey basic rules of netiquette as can be found in
news.announce.newusers
and at the UK Usenet Homepages.
- The netiquette FAQs are also found on the rtfm server at MIT and
include:
- We may have discussed the topic before - check Google Advanced Groups Search
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search (formerly Dejanews) to see
if past threads may hold the answers to your questions.
- Specific questions are more likely to get useful answers than
general ones.
- Don't spam.
- Avoid crossposting, particularly to newsgroups you don't
regularly read.
- Do not post binaries (pictures, sound files, etc.) to this
newsgroup. Not everyone can handle those relatively large files
and binaries in non-binary groups have been known to get those
newsgroups removed from some ISP's. Instead put them on a web page
or post them to an alt.binaries.* group and post a notice to their
location on this group.
The word "myth" has several meanings. In the most general sense, it
refers to any invented story, but in the sense used on alt.mythology, it
refers to a traditional story, usually very old, which has or once had
significant spiritual, moral, or social significance. "Mythology"
refers both to a body of myths (such as all Greek myths) and to the
study of myths.
Important to the definition is what myth is not. Stories which, from
their origin, are set in print and passed down unchanged are not myth.
Myth is a form of folklore, which means that it is shaped by the "folk"
in general, and not just one or a few authors. Many myths are collected
in books, but they have had long oral traditions before that. Second,
folklore is not myth if it is not a story, so proverbs, superstitions,
riddles, etc. are not myth as such. However, they may appear in myths,
and isolated elements of myths are often discussed in alt.mythology.
Note that most stories associated with current religions are, by
definition, myths. This does not belittle them; on the contrary, it says
that people consider them important enough to repeat over many
generations.
Professionals distinguish between mythology, legend, and folktale,
although all get discussed without distinction on alt.mythology. Very
briefly, myths are considered true by the people who tell them; they are
usually set near the beginning of time and often concern the origins of
things. Legends are also regarded as true, but are set later in history
when the world was much as it is today. Folklore is considered false by
the people telling it, and its setting in time and space is usually
irrelevant. Myths are considered sacred, legends are more often secular,
and folktales aren't taken seriously (although the overall message might
be). Although this classification is useful, there is plenty of
overlap, and stories range over too much territory to fit nicely in any
simple classification.
If you look at the first two chapters of Genesis you'll find that
there are two creation stories. In the first chapter, God makes man
and woman at the same time. In the second chapter, man is made from
dust and woman, Eve, is made from his rib. These two accounts led to
the idea that there was a first Eve, prior to the Eve that is the
mother of Cain and Abel.
Prior to this confusion, there existed a Sumerian demoness or type of
demoness called lilitu, who was either adopted by or was the
etymological antecedent for the Hebrew "Lilith". For the Hebrews,
Lilith was originally a demoness who was held responsible for crib
death.
Sometime between 800 CE and 1000 CE, The Alphabet of Ben-Sira
was
written, combining these two traditions. There, for the first time,
Lilith is named as the first Eve, stating that she left Adam because
she refused to be treated as an inferior to Adam (particularly, in
bed).
Because she refused to return, she is made to kill 100 of her children
every day.
For more information, see:
- Alan Humm's Lilith page at:
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith/lilith.html
- Patai, Raphael The Hebrew Goddess Third Enlarged edition.
New
York, KTAV Publishing House, 1978. (Also: Wayne State University
Press, 1990.)
- Schwartz, Howard. Lilith's Cave: Jewish Tales of the
Supernatural. Oxford, Oxford University Press, 1989.
The phoenix is a fabulous bird that was to have renewed itself through
periodic deaths and rebirths. As such, this bird is often used as a
symbol of resurrection and immortality. References to the phoenix have
been found in the writings and tales of China/Japan, ancient Egypt
(Benu), and the Classical writings of Hesiod, Ovid, Pliny, Tacitus,
Herodotus, and Seneca.
- Source: Symbolic and Mythical Animals by J.C. Cooper
For more information - Offline:
- Any bestiary
- such as Symbolic and Mythical Animals by J.C. Cooper
- Any dictionary of symbolism
- such as Dictionary of Symbols by Jack Tresidder
- The Myth of the Phoenix by R. Van Den Broek
(out of print?)
For more information - Online:
For illustrations - Offline:
- Any illustrated bestiary
- The Phoenix Cards by Susan Sheppard and Debbie
Kempton-Smith
- Treasury of Fantastic and Mythological Creatures by
Richard Huber
- Symbols, Signs, & Signets by Ernst Lehner
For illustrations - Online:
NOTE: Since finding good phoenix pictures on-line is a bit like
questing for the Holy Grail, please forward URL's of good phoenix
pictures to the FAQ staff for possible FAQ
inclusion.
Sisyphus. Zeus had seduced the daughter of the
river god Asopus, and Sisyphus ratted on Zeus to
Asopus. Zeus was very angry and had Sisyphus punished
in this way, although Sisyphus didn't go down without
a fight. First he managed to trick Death and tied
him up; after he'd been taken down to Hades, he managed
to get out, and lived happily at home until he died of
old age!
In Greek myth, it was Prometheus. Other cultures had/have tales
with similar themes featureing different characters, such as Coyote or
Beaver in Native North American myth and legend.
Tiresias. The story can be found in Ovid's Metamorphoses,
book III. See
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Ov.+Met.+3.314
The Speech of Aristophanes in Plato's Symposium. See:
http://plato.evansville.edu/texts/jowett/symposium5.htm
These two television series draw heavily on mythology from around the
world, but, by and large, they don't let accuracy get in the way of
entertainment. Once in a while there is a real blooper, as when the
scriptwriters christened nasty little vampires "dryads"-as we all know,
real dryads are gentle tree-nymphs-and we can certainly disagree with
the interpretation of various characters, but, mostly, they do a pretty
fair job, considering their priorities. Here, for the curious, is some
"real" information about some of the recurring characters-no gods or
monsters, as they're easy to find information about elsewhere. Hercules
himself was as "real" as they come, of course (his original Greek name
was Heracles, which means "glory of Hera"). Xena, Gabrielle, Joxer and
many other leading "Xena" characters are fictional, though the idea of
the fighting Amazon is very much a part of Greek myth. (Gabrielle, as a
name, would not exist, until the Middle Ages.)
- ALCMENE:
- While married to Amphitrion, she gave birth to twin sons,
Heracles and Iphicles. Herc's real father, however, was the god Zeus.
(In mythological stories about twins, it is common to attribute the
paternity of one of them to a god.) One of the odder twists of the TV
series is to give Alcmene Jason as a second husband. There is no Greek
base for this. Moreover, Jason, both on TV and in myth, was of Herc's
generation, and, in myth, had a complicated married life of his own.
- AUTOLYCUS:
- Yes, he really was the "king of thieves," a master
thief of
such skill that he reputedly could magically disguise the objects he
stole. And, yes, he was widely acquainted. He really did know
Heracles, Iolaus, Sisyphus, Salmoneus, Jason and most of the rest of the
"regulars." Fun fact: His grandson was Odysseus, who appears in The
Iliad and The Odyssey-Odysseus is also considered a tricky character.
Fun fact #2: He turns up again as a lovable-and tuneful!-rogue in
Shakepeare's play, "The Winter's Tale."
- CALLISTO:
- Not nearly as tough a cookie as her TV counterpart. She was
one of the band of nymphs attending Artemis, the virgin goddess of the
hunt. Seduced by Zeus's wily ways, she got pregnant. When Artemis, who
demanded strict chastity of the girls, found out, she went into a rage,
turned her into a bear, set the dogs on her, and called the other nymphs
to join the hunt. Callisto wouldn't have had a chance, had Zeus not
intervened to catch her up to the stars as the Great Bear.
- CYRENE:
- Xena's mom, in the show. The "real" Cyrene was a tomboy Lapith
princess, a huntress so brave and strong that she caught the eye of
Apollo himself as she wrestled with a lion. He kidnapped her in his
golden chariot, and bore her away to a city that she would eventually
rule. She slept with him, but also with Ares, bore several sons, and
eventually became a powerful occult priestess. The "Xena" writers seem
to have borrowed from her legend for Xena's own personality.
- IOLAUS:
- Herc's charioteer, best friend, sidekick-and nephew, son of
Herc's twin brother, Iphicles. Thus he was a good deal younger than
Herc; one story has Herc trying to pass a discarded wife on to him when
he was only 16. (The "real" Herc was nowhere near as saintly as his TV
counterpart.) Iolaus participated in most of the Twelve Labors central
to Herculean mythology, and many of his other adventures. Just as in
the TV series, he never got much credit for his aid.
- JASON:
- One of the four great Greek action-adventure heroes, the others
being Heracles, Theseus and Perseus. His character on the show has been
almost entirely changed from the original, and his story is too complex
to summarize here. But he never married Herc's mother!
- SALMONEUS:
- Not a bit like the TV character. The "real" Salmoneus
was
mostly known for his bitter rivalry with Sisyphus, that bad man, but he
was also thought to be a rainmaker. He was the great-grandfather of
Jason, which just goes to show how chronology gets mixed up.
In addition to earlier folkore, two historical personages are deeply
imbedded in the modern conception of the vampire: Vlad Tepes, and
Elizabeth Bathory. Their stories are told at number of websites.
One such site is:
here
- Ouroboros (from Greek Alchemy)
- Jörmungand, the Midgard Serpent (Norse Myth)
There are lots of flood myths from all over the world, but not
everywhere and there are many variations, see:
http://www.best.com/~atta/floods.htm
Comparing these stories is on topic here. Debating or asserting the
veracity (or lack thereof) of these stories is not and is better suited
for talk.origins.
Caveat lector ("let the reader beware") as it's a commercial site, but
http://www.flood-myth.com/
also includes comparisions of the Near Eastern
flood myths including Noah's flood.
We asked some of the frequent posters to alt.mythology, and here
are their recommendations:
- Barnstone, Willis ed., The Other Bible, Harper Collins,
New York,
1984. This volume collects a number of excerpts from
extra-canonical works - those that didn't make it into the
official Bible. Here they are organized by theme and would
otherwise require hunting through collections of pseudepigrapha &
apocrypha.
- Bullfinch, Thomas Mythology (Includes The Age of
Fable, The
Age of Chivalry and Legends of Charlemagne)
Bullfinch's work
is a digest of classical mythology, Arthurian and Carolingian
Legends, as well as a bit about Egyptian and Norse mythology.
- Dalley, Stephanie Myths from Mesopotamia, Oxford
University Press,
New York, 1990. The most recent collection of the major
Babylonian myths is also among the least expensive and more
enjoyable reads.
- Gantz, Jeffrey, The Mabinogion, Viking Penguin Inc., New
York,
1976. There are other good translations of this collection of
Welsh legends but Gantz is highly readable, easy to find and has
some useful notes.
- Gill, Sam and Sullivan, Irene, Dictionary of Native American
Mythology Few books on "Native American Mythology" are any
good at being resprentative of the wide range of myths and legends
of the various Native American peoples. This one of the best
and is quite helpful in researching various Native American myth
and legend particulars and motifs.
- Graves, Robert, The Greek Myths. There is an old
Braziller
edition as well as newer ones.
- Jones, Alison LaRousse Dictionary of World Folklore
This little volume covers a wide range of topics - mythology,
folklore, symbolism, legend, and superstitions. Where else can
you look up lucky charms, the Jersey Devil, the Norns, and
vampires in one book? ;)
- Lurker, Manfred, Dictionary of God and Goddesses, Devils and
Demons This is just way tooooo handy of a volume to look up
all
those deities one is just not familiar with.
- Ovid, The Metamorphoses. Many famous myths made
poetical.
- Pritchard James B., Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to
the
Old
Testament, Princeton University Press, Princeton, 1955.
There is also a 1969 supplement to this work, as well as a
companion volume, The Ancient Near East in Pictures. It
used to
be the authoritative source for all complete texts of the
Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites, Hittites although now there
are more recent, separate translations. It's pricy but many
libraries have a copy and there is a much more affordable,
abridged paperbound version.
- Sproul, Barbara Primal Myths. The only cross-cultural
collection I know of which collects the stories in as close to
their original form as possible. It gives only creation myths,
but it includes myths from all parts of the world.
Runners up:
- Green, Miranda, Dictionary of Celtic Myth and Legend
- Erdoes, Richard and Ortiz Alfonso eds. American Indian Myths
and Legends
- Pennick, Nigel and Jones, Prudence A History of Pagan
Europe
- Zimmerman's Dictionary of Classical Mythology
The following books all belong to the World Mythology Series from
Peter Bedrick books. These books are richly illustrated, include a
very nice cross section of myths and history from the respective
culture, and are reasonably accurate retellings. Unfortunately not
all of these volumes are still in print:
- Angels, Prophets, Rabbis, & Kings from the Stories of the
Jewish People by Jose Patterson.
- Demons, Gods & Holy Men from Indian Myths & Legends by
Shahrukh Husain.
- Dragons, Gods & Spirits from Chinese Mythology by Tao Tao
Liu Sanders.
- Druids, Gods & Heroes from Celtic Mythology by Anne Ross.
- Fabled Cities, Princes & Jinn from Arab Myths and Legends
by Khairat Al-Saleh.
- Gods and Heroes from Viking Mythology by Brian Branston.
- Gods and Pharaohs from Egyptian Mythology by Geraldine
Harris.
- Gods, Men and Monsters from the Greek Myths by Michael
Gibson.
- Heroes, Gods & Emperors from Roman Mythology by Kerry
Usher.
- Heroes, Monsters, and Other Worlds from Russian Mythology
by Elizabeth Warner.
- Kings, Gods & Spirits from African Mythology by Jan
Knappert.
- Spirits, Heroes & Hunters from North American Indian
Mythology by Marion Wood.
- Warriors, Gods and Spirits from Central and South American
Mythology by Douglas Gifford.
Some other very nice books for younger readers follow. Same proviso
applies - not all of these volumes are still in print.
- In the Beginning: Creation Stories from Around the World
by Virginia Hamilton. Various. Color illustrations.
- The Illustrated Book of Myths by Neil Philip.
Various. Photos and color illustrations.
- Mythical Journeys, Legendary Quests by Moyra Caldecott.
Various. Color and B/W illustrations.
- The Singing Sack: 28 Song-Stories from Around the World
by Helen
East. Various. A very different format. Folktales and traditional
songs. Can be accompanied by a recording of the songs.
- D'Aulaires' Greek Mythology by Ingri D'Aulaire and Edgar
Parin
D'Aulaire. Ancient Greece. Color and B/W illustrations.
- Celtic Fairy Tales by Joseph Jacobs. "Celt". Multiple
titles by same author. Inexpensive. B/W illustrations.
- d'Aulaires' Norse Gods and Giants, by Ingri and Edgar
Parin d'Aulaires.
Norse. Color and B/W illustrations.
- Adopted by the Eagles by Paul Goble.
Native American. Numerous titles by same author. Color
illustrations by author.
- Iroquois Stories: Heroes and Heroines, Monsters and Magic
by Joseph Bruchac.
Native American. B/W illustrations.
- Skywoman: Legends of the Iroquois by Joanne Shenandoah
and Douglas George.
Native American. B/W illustrations.
[If you have any suggestions for really great sources for readers of
all ages, please forward them to the FAQ staff.
We'll review them
for possible inclusion!]
Here are some sources that will aid in researching the symbolism or
mythological/folkloric references of animals.
Should you know of other sources that would be a great help to
others doing similar research, please pass the information along to
the FAQ staff for possible inclusion in this
list.
Sources on multiple animals and creatures:
- Zoo of the Gods by Anthony S. Mercatante
- Wildlife Folklore by Laura C. Martin
- Symbolic & Mythological Animals by J.C. Cooper
- The Bestiary: a Book of Beasts by T.H. White
- Hargreaves New Illustrated Bestiary by Joyce Hargreaves
- Lady of the Beasts: Ancient Images of the Goddess and Her
Sacred
Animals by Buffie Johnson
Encyclopedias and Dictionaries not specifically focusing on
animals and other creatures:
- Dictionary of Native American Mythology by Sam D. Gill
and Irene
F. Sullivan
- Dictionary of Symbols by Jack Tresidder
- The Woman's Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred Objects by
Barbara
Walker
- Motif-Index of Folk-Literature by Stith Thompson
- The Encyclopedia of Things that Never Were: Creatures,
Places and
People by Michael Page and Robert Ingpen
Sources on the lore of specific creatures:
- The Folktale Cat by Frank de Caro
- Ravensong: A Natural and Fabulous History of Ravens and
Crows by
Catherine Feher Elston
- The Sacred Paw: The Bear in Nature, Myth, and
Literature
by Paul
Shepard and Barry Sanders
- Encyclopedia Mythica - maintains thousands of short articles
about
myth topics from all over the world. It also has sub-indexes
broken down by cultural group:
http://www.pantheon.org
- Myths and Legends - This is a list, with brief descriptions, of
links to hundreds of mythology, legend & folktale related sites.
It begins with a general section and then groups the links by
region, culture & language group.
http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/myth.html
- Myth and Legend from Ancient Times to the Space Age - This is
another
list, with brief descriptions, of links to hundreds of mythology,
legend and folktale related sites.
http://www.pibburns.com/myth.htm
- Mything Links by Kathleen Jenks is another such list,
broken down by
culture and in some cases subject area. Her descriptions are
rather lengthy, which some may find more informative and others
may find rambling. Some browsers may have difficulty with some
applets on the site.
http://www.mythinglinks.org
- Electronic Texts archives and links:
- Ancient Egypt - The Mythology
April Arnold's general resource on Egyptian mythology.
http://www.EgyptianMyths.com
- Goddesses of Ancient Egypt - Katherine Griffis's essays on those
deities.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8669/index.html
- The Perseus Project - An online database about ancient Greece.
Includes lots of ancient texts (including Homer, Hesiod, and the
main Greek dramatists), and pictures of ancient artwork
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/
- Herakles - Greece's Greatest Hero
Web site about Herakles (more commonly known as Hercules)
at the Perseus Project.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/
- That Zeus really gets around...
For Greek mythological family trees try:
- Free English Translations of the Norse Eddas and Sagas on the
Internet:
http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/asatru/free.html
- Celtic myth - Anniina Jokinen presents an enormous collection of
links to Irish Literature, Mythology, Folkore, and Drama:
http://www.luminarium.org/mythology/ireland/
- Over a hundred Native American tales are found in the Lore
section of Stonee's Weblodge:
http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/loreindx.html
- WWW Virtual Library's Index of Native American Resources on the
Internet Native American tales.
http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/
- Labyrinth: Resources for Medieval Studies - is the primary
medieval
site on the web and collects a number of texts from and about the
period from 500 to 1500 C.E.
http://www.georgetown.edu/labyrinth/labyrinth-home.html
- Saints and such:
There are a number of FAQ's associated with special topics that come
up in the group. They include:
A number of other newsgroups are related to discussion here as well
including:
- alt.mythology.mythic-animals
- This group is intended to be for the
discussion of mythic & legendary animals & monsters. It is also
dominated by a lot of PBNG (play by newsgroup) free-form
roleplaying.
- alt.mythology.mythic-animals.gryphons
- alt.mythology.jinn - a
fairly low trafic NG devoted to the
discussion of jinni (aka genie, djinni), ifrits, marids, et al.
- alt.legend.king-arthur
- a group of similar character to
alt.mythology, but focused on discussing the many versions of the
Arthurian tale, ranging from possible historical roots to modern
retellings and movies.
- sci.classics - discussion of
Ancient Greek and Latin literature
- humanities.classics -
sci.classics regrouped?
- AltaVista is a great general search engine, particularly if you
are searching for an specific or unusual topic.
AltaVista
- Google is another good search engine that puts more linked to
results earlier.
Google
VI. Myth Studies and Myth Authors
Graves, a considerable poet, essayist and novelist, wrote two books
that have had a great influence on the modern study of mythology. The
first is The Greek Myths, published sometimes in two volumes,
also, more usefully, in one. This is probably the handiest reference
guide to any mythology ever compiled.* (It is not
the one to get if you just "want the story.") Graves, also a learned
classicist, in effect invented a form of hypertext for the printed
page many decades before html was ever dreamed of. The brief chapters
are first divided into alphabetized paragraphs which tell all or part
of a myth (subsequent chapters continue it). Each
paragraph is end-noted to its source(s) from Greece or Rome (Roman authors
are sourced, but only Greek mythology is considered). Following that,
brief numbered paragraphs give Graves’s explanations and interpretations
of the text. At the end of the book is an index of names, giving
pronunciation, translation of meaning (when applicable) and all
citations. Hebrew Myths, written with Raphael Patai, uses the same
wonderfully flexible format, but can’t be said to be so influential,
possibly because the Bible, for many people, is inadmissible as
mythology.
Graves's other big book, The White Goddess, may be the most
eccentric non-fictional work ever written by a classicist. Its influence
on the popular perception of mythology, both Greek and Northern
European, has been enormous, not necessarily a good thing, but certainly
an interesting one. The book has been hard-wired into 20th-century
cultural history despite being almost entirely romantic (or poetic)
personal theory. Its theories underwrite modern neo-paganism, and, even
more, have promoted or anointed the concept of the Triple Goddess to a
point past common sense--and scholarly protest. Otherwise hardheaded
people, with a nose for hokum, can love The White Goddess--its
charms are
many--without necessarily embracing it, or is that her? Beware,
she's dangerous.
A number of Graves's novels may be of interest to alt.mythology
readers: Hercules, My Shipmate; Homer's Daughter; King
Jesus;
his translation of Apuleis's Latin novel The Golden Ass; and the
two
non-mythological novels about the Emperor Claudius that are the basis for
TV's great mini-series, "I, Claudius."
* If you know how to read it, that is. It is
important, but easy, to learn
how to read Graves as a solid reference tool. Take all the alphabetized
material, the footnotes and the index as gospel -- he’s completely
reliable
there. Take the numbered material (the interpretations) with a great big
pinch of salt (remembering, however, that he was a learned, cultured and
well-traveled man, also that he respected the reader enough to keep his
opinions separate from the facts). Keep in mind that the poetic mind does
not work quite as other minds do. If you doubt that, read The White
Goddess.
The most popular disciple of Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell and his
ideas about archetypes and universal myths are no strangers to this
forum. He does tend to be criticized here for, among other things,
making overly broad generalizations. Also his fans are often chided
for not seeing much of Jung's work in Campbell's. Still it can not be
argued that Campbell has not been a major force behind the popularity
of the study of mythology over the past thirty years. Check dejanews
before starting another Campbell thread here. Other arenas perhaps
more suited to discussion of his works are:
If you're not looking for newsgroups specifically, there are *lots* of
Joseph Campbell forums out there. (And there may be J.C. newsgroups,
too... we just don't know of any.)
Eliade's principal goal was to demonstrate that religion was
something worthy of study in its own right. It was not, to him, just a
consequence of other factors (ala Marx or Freud, for example.) In
Eliade's study of religion he noted three themes that seemed to run
through all religion (at least all archaic religion.) First there was
a distinction between the sacred and the profane, that is, everyday
life. Since it is impossible for men to directly describe the sacred
it must be done symbolically, which is how mythology enters the
picture. One way to rise out of the profane and into the sacred is to
abolish history, that is, we want to return to that moment before the
profane and sacred split apart. To do this we can view history as
cyclic so that we are always going back to the moment of creation.
One of the major criticisms of Eliade is that the globalism that
he sees in religion is not really there and is only made to appear
there by a superficial view of things that are colored by Eliade's own
beliefs. Another criticism is he often did not define his terms very
well, and so sometimes the concepts he talks about seem very vague.
Eliade never wrote a systematic treatise on his ideas, which is
one thing that led to the second criticism above, and parts of his
ideas appear in the various books that he wrote. Thus to get an
overall view of Eliade's thought one has to read many of his
writings. The following are a few that can get one started: Images
and Symbols; The Myth of Eternal Return; Myth,
Drama and Mystery; Patterns in Comparative Religion; The
Sacred and the Profane. Also of interest are Eliade's
autobiography and his journals.
These are usually off topic here but...
Get ye to http://www.luckymojo.com
and the newsgroup alt.lucky.w
The members of the alt.mythology FAQ committee are: Kim Burkard
greenman@servtech.com, Chris
Camfield: ccamfield@DELETEMEemail.com,
Dick Eney dicconf@DELETERadix.Net,
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg egylist@DELETEgriffis-consulting.com,
Mark Isaak atta@DELETEbest.com, Don
Redmond dredmond@DELETEmath.siu.edu,
Chris Siren cbsiren@DELETEalum.mit.edu,
and Alice Turner: aturner6@DELETEnyc.rr.com,
and have been assisted by the rest of alt.mythology in authoring this
FAQ.