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From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,alt.law-enforcement,alt.politics.radical-left Subject: Re: Bombs, guns, militias and the NRA Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:22:30 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. BOUNKEY wrote: > What the hell do you expect the NRA to do? I don't ever recall hearing > the NRA argue that anyone has a right to build bombs or to plant bombs > or to rob banks. You anti-gun nuts are funny. And so what if people DO build bombs? The problem, of course, is that there's no social equality in this control, so we resort to military equality to right wrongs. The SPIRIT of the Second Amendment was that INDEED citizens be given as much power as the government. Nuclear weapons if necessary. Force rich and poor, powerful and powerless, rulers and ruled to work together, or else die trying. Idiots, of course, try to implement military equality without any other kind of equality...and so they die trying.
6.5.97 Not that it matters. From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.politics.socialism,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Tax the Poor! Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:26:38 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Roy Langston wrote: > As a general rule, anyone who talks about "taxing the rich" via income tax > is a liar who is hoping to divert your attention from the fact that the > rich are by definition rich in _assets_, not necessarily income, and that > in its ease of administration and compliance, its effects on the economy > and people's behaviour, and its fundamental fairness and morality, an > asset tax would be far _far_ superior to the income tax. Of course, money is just paper and numbers. Assets are just objects. The value of which are determined by whoever has power over various financial or commodity markets. The real solution, of course, is employee and consumer democracy. Capitalists, of course, don't believe their subordinates can make the right decisions. They themselves, like Kings, don't know enough to teach them what the right choices are anyway. And so they pretend they know more, just so they can keep their jobs and avoid listening to new ideas. ------ In a world lost in propaganda and censorship, the real truth is spoken only by liars and fools.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions Subject: Re: Tax the Poor! Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 17:55:13 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Huge Cajones Remailer wrote: > typical LIbERal. always looking for more taxes. just cut > government. we need to get rid of government tit-sucking > LIbERalS like you. Cut government bureaucracy so we can support a bigger and better corporate bureaucracy? Not that it really matters either way. There's no real democratic control of either one.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics Subject: Re: Health insurance does not insure that much Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:55:13 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Roger Tinkoff wrote: > Tell me why Communism is some terrible, evil force we have to stamp > out of countries who choose to run their governments that way. There > is only one reason I can think of why our government would want to > stamp it out. That is because our politicians need to promote the > "economic growth" of our industries, and communist governments perhaps > don't allow US goods to be marketed there. It's an ego thing. We can't accept that someone else is different from us. Surely we're better. Every politician needs to make their own citizens so "proud" of their country that they need to go attack other ones. Only the most stupid countries aren't willing to trade paper bills for food, or shiny rocks for equipment. Only in the most stupid of economies will importing more *real* products and giving information away for free drive people into poverty.
5.5.97 A swarm of flies. From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.socialism,alt.journalism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Internet Terrorism, Ozone... PROPAGANDA? Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:41:01 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. DivineHammer@pipeline.com wrote: > >War is caused by not enough communication. > It would be great if it was that simple, but unfortunately, your > interpretation appears to be what is simplistic. (So all we needed to > do was to communicate with Hitler?? Don't think so....) As a matter of fact, YES. Someone should've told him that gene evolution is irrelevant the minute intelligent life evolves the ability to educate and the ability to manipulate the environment around it. Then life reaches the next stage of evolution: knowledge and philosophy. This new stage of evolution, of course, can't happen if you're killing off anyone who doesn't think exactly like you do. Someone should've told him that there IS no inherent value to gold or "fine" art. That it's just a capitalist pyramid scheme. That real value is in labor, labor that isn't very productive if it has no incentive to work. And idiot capitalists still wonder why Germany suffered hyper-inflation when they went and robbed the world of gold and art to support the war effort. ------- I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.socialism,alt.journalism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Internet Terrorism, Ozone... PROPAGANDA? Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 18:53:00 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. ncorp wrote: > >>Propaganda is key. The fact is, World War I wasn't really > >>caused by nationalism or alliances. It was caused by vultures > >>in the press descending on conflict, in search of circulation. > I don't mean to be rude, I respect your point of view, but you say "WWI... was > caused by..." who? Do you mean to imply that WWI wasn't actually caused after > all by greedy, self-centered, short-tempered power-hungry oligarches trying to > maintain "appearances," and save their own miserable cowardly asses? Crime is caused by no communication. Social injustice is caused by one-sided communication. War is caused by not enough communication. Your average journalist is more concerned with his credibility and "exposing" the problem than *solving* the problem. Gotta be impartial. Gotta APPEAR impartial. Everyone knows there's no such thing as an impartial press, except the press. But terrorists and law enforcement alike feel like they have to play the media game. Whenever the press shows up, pride, honor, their very JOBS are at stake! -------- Nothing attracts a swarm of flies like a pile of shit.
2.5.97 Walking barefoot. From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: sci.econ,talk.politics.theory,alt.activism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.youth,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.socialism,soc.culture.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.rights.human,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.economics Subject: Re: The Death Penalty: Pro Life? Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 18:07:35 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Desmond Coughlan wrote: > Oh, here we go again. I'm opposed to the death penalty, so I'm a "wimp". > Hey, guess what, Jose: I ate quiche last week. Not only that, I cry at > "Watership Down", and I do the dishes occasionally. The only cowards are the ones who want someone else to do their fighting for them. When someone robs a bank, who has to chase after those green bags of paper? Risking life and limb for what? Green paper? Honor? Pride? Loyalty? Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line. We are a vengeful society because society teaches us vengeance. What? Go help the hungry? But they'll charge me with violating their airspace! Under- mining the Peace Process (TM)! Insubordination! Being a BAD person! Think of the paperwork! -------- The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. -- Anatole France
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.activism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.youth,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.socialism,soc.culture.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.rights.human,sci.econ,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.economics Subject: Re: The Death Penalty: Pro Life? Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 16:49:22 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Rt.Rev.Dr.Jeff Ganaposki wrote: > I find myself arguing for capital punishment - but the caveat is that > I don't think government is competent to do the job right. > The common law is best enforced by people who respect private property > rights and will not tolerate those who abuse the person or property of > another, for gain, or for kicks. Only supporters of the death penalty deserve to be executed. ------- "He that scatters thorns, let him not go barefoot." - Benjamin Franklin
30.4.97 A real public hostile takeover. From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism,alt.society.liberalism,alt.politics.radical-left Subject: Re: Easier, Fairer Taxes Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:46:35 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mark Friesel wrote: > Oh, I wasn't asking about what 'standing' meant. Hey! I am curious > about your opinion on one thing, though. Say we continued to develop > more powerful weapons until we reached the point that we had a hand > weapon that could vaporized, say, a small city. Should such a weapon > be banned or not? No doubt it will happen. No doubt the range will increase to inter-continental distances. Invention is as unavoidable as truth. The world will either end in fire, or in cooperation. We can either wait and see, or start in one of those directions right now. As long as there's poverty, as long as there's despair, there will be violence.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,rec.collecting.paper-money,misc.invest.stocks,misc.invest,alt.society.liberalism,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Easier, Fairer Taxes Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:58:58 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Big Oh wrote: > No company pays taxes. All taxes and fees imposed on business are passed > on to the buyer/consumer of their products and services by being included > in the prices charged for those products and services. Raising taxes on > business only raises the prices on the products and services provided. > Eventually, all of those taxes and fees imposed on business are paid by the > individual because the individual can't arbitrarily pass them on to anyone > else -- the individual is the final consumer. You could say the same thing about individuals as well. No rich man pays taxes. Because he has the power to control prices, any tax increase on him will just result in higher prices. The surest way for financial companies to improve their stock price is to invest in themselves. You can even say there's no such thing as a real public hostile takeover. If it's not over by the time the stock market reacts, then it just becomes a ploy to scam gullible investors. A game of chicken producting no more REAL wealth than an afternoon's entertainment. If we want to stop talking in circles, then we need to start talking about democracy and free speech in the workplace. ------- Shouting fire in a crowded theater is only dangerous if you've raised a society of gullible panic-stricken idiots.
30.4.97 Next on the grocery list. 2.5.97 Opiate of the masses. 5.5.97 17:33 And then they wonder. 5.5.97 17:38 The only question is who decides. 8.5.97 Debt laws and you. 12.5.97 The world would be no worse off. 14.5.97 Simple economics. From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:58:53 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. markhornberger@nietzsche.net wrote: > But big government is more conducive to graft and corruption - Russia, > Japan, China, etc all bearing testament to this fact. The more power you > have concentrated in any one entity, the greater will be the potential > and enticement for abuse of that power. Big Government. Big Business. Same fucking thing. Size matters not. What matters is the chain of communication. Idiot hierarchies that go top-down leave a few "brains" at the top doing the thinking for the thousands or millions below. And then they wonder why nothing ever gets done. Democracy is NOT a goal in itself. Democracy is a TOOL that will give subordinates the COURAGE to voice their thoughts. Freedom of speech, a ban on execution, job security. These are ALL tools to encourage the generation of new (or rediscovery of old) ideas. And it is an abundance of ideas that not only moves society forward, but promotes rational thought by encouraging skepticism. Like duh. ------ The two sides of mass communication: credible and gullible.
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.politics.usa.republican,misc.invest.stocks,alt.president.clinton,misc.taxes,talk.politics.misc,misc.invest,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:39:26 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. A Radical Republican wrote: > Weren't you going by W. Wonka earlier ?? Either way, if you don't > understand simple economics, then don't argue them... Here's simple economics for you: Marketing creates greed. Marketing defines beauty. Invisible hand = professional brainwashers. Currency = emperor's new clothes. Stock market = pyramid scheme. There is INDEED a free lunch, because real value comes from human labor... Digging up "precious metals" is just counterfeiting. It's amazing how fake idiots like you can get away with denying the truth. THAT is why the power to brainwash needs to be distributed among as many people as possible: Pavlov's Laws of Mutual Brainwashing: Repetition: The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers. Mutation: Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line. Skepticism: If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it? Absorption: Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant. Focus: Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle. --------- Only capitalists see the emperor's new clothes.
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:54:18 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Big Bopper wrote: > Run up $30,000 on your credit card and then tell them,"They're numbers, > ya dimwit, NUMBERS! Paper, shiny rocks, graven images, the emperor's > new clothes. It doesn't make a different WHO has those numbers" I know > they will just go away impressed with your lodgic and grasp of > economics. Your a liberal all right. I can see how your only weapon is > emotion with no subtance, because you have no lodgic of thought. They are in fact numbers. I could stop asking for credit, and the world would be no worse off. I could not pay it back and the world would be no worse off. Every computer containing financial information could crash tomorrow and the world would be no worse off. Why? Because numbers and currency are mere units of exchange for human labor. It would only be a tragedy if human labor or equipment was lost. -------- If you can't think for yourself, don't even try thinking for anyone else.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 16:41:50 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Big Bopper wrote: > When a government can't pay for what it hands out future generations > must be taxed to pay for the debt. The more you want now will only tax > you children more when they grow up. It's a heartless view of selfish > people that will sell their children in to a debt like that. Hello! Have you bought your latest brain this week? If I give you a dollar, I can either expect that back (DEBT) or I can NOT expect that back (GRANT). The only thing that obligates me to return debts are debt laws and you. They're numbers, ya dimwit, NUMBERS! Paper, shiny rocks, graven images, the emperor's new clothes. It doesn't make a different WHO has those numbers. What DOES matter is if those numbers are used to dig up MORE shiny rocks, to invent MORE lies and half-truths, or spent doing something USEFUL, like spreading knowledge or improving food production. --------- We are the music makers -- and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.journalism.critism,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:38:01 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. A Radical Republican wrote: > >Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich. > And freedom to take for the liberals.. A government takes. An employer takes. The only question is who decides how that excess money will be spent. ------- It's amazing how idiots can reconcile capitalist "democracy" in politics with autocratic "communism" at work.
From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.journalism.critism,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:33:30 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. A Radical Republican wrote: > And that means that those with much should be FORCED to give away a > larger percentage than us median individuals ? I believe that > religion does not advocate a state imposed responsibility, but teaches > it is what is need for a healthy spiritual life. As an analogy, would > you advocate the state mandating the eating of fish for friday dinner > to promote a healthy physical life ? And why should Kings be FORCED to listen to citizens? The fact is, decisions have to be made under corporate structure. These decisions can either be done democratically or autocratically. That's the difference between election and appointment. Capitalists, of course, don't actually believe their subordinates have any good ideas. That's why they give bad reviews to any employee that dares to disagree. And then they wonder why their employees never come up with any ideas different from their own. ------- Experience doesn't breed wisdom. Experience breeds brainwashing.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.journalism.critism,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 16:36:18 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Craig Fletcher wrote: > Required community service? Required community service is just another word for slavery. On the other hand, if you offer to provide a living wage to any lawyer, marketer, or stock broker that's willing to quit his job and go do community service, then they might actually get to do something productive for the first time in their lives. > Communism does not work. It is contrary to human nature. You can > deny this fact just as you can deny the fact that gravity exists. Yet > denying gravity will not keep you from falling flat on your face if you > ignore it and jump off a building. Every example of communism has > failed why bring it to the U.S. You mean every example of *autocracy*. There's no such thing as communism if the working class can't elect the ruling class. "Dictatorship of the proletariat" is just another way of saying employee democracy... after it's been passed through the capitalist propaganda strainer. Religion is as much an "opiate of the masses" as the illusion of democracy and free speech that we have in this country. Capitalist spin-doctors, of course, love to pounce on this phrase, saying communists will destroy freedom of religion, when in fact, every major religion teaches "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". ------- Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ?? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:31:14 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. A Radical Republican wrote: > I THOUGHT it was a non-political event, WHY is it called the > "President's Summit ??", wasn't someone else supposed to > the the chair of the event ?? One word: glory. Once a person has enough money, enough sex, enough fame, the next thing on the grocery list is glory. After they get enough glory, they'll get down to some serious business, like ending poverty and warfare, so that society can enter the final phase of evolution: exploration. ------- Freedom of speech was a concept invented by a woman, whether her male counterparts realized it or not. But it matters not whether the play was written by Shakespeare or Byron.
30.4.97 Because of one thing. 1.5.97 16:14 Limited to a given stretch of land. From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books,alt.politics.socialism,alt.postmodern,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Honour in the Marketplace (was: Re: wealth) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:26:11 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Thomas R Scudder wrote: > Jane Austen reads better than Carolyn Keene because of one thing: > lit-crit pomposity. On its own, does Austen *really* entertain much > more than Keene? Those who have trained their sensibilities to > tell the difference, those who have trained themselves to have > critical facilities, have done nothing but ruined their own ability > to appreciate books without having to resort to anal retentive analysis. > If publishers actually let the customers VOTE on either better books > or lower prices, the answer WILL be lower prices (unless, of course, > we indulge in specious education). Of course, lower prices are a > bad thing under capitalism. Puts people out of work. Yep, specious education. How useful are all those lame SAT words you learned in high school now? They're not. But at least it kept your English teachers and those classist bozos at ETS employed. Schools teach literature for one purpose only: exposure to more ideas and more viewpoints. Of course, that has long been forgotten as teachers have been brainwashed into testing the most irrelevant facts from each story. How else can they tell if one human being is better than another human being? Cliff's Notes almost saved the world a ton of time, until, of course, they were killed by capitalists trying to keep their own jobs. ---------- Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books,alt.politics.socialism,alt.postmodern,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Honour in the Marketplace (was: Re: wealth) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:14:24 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. G. Kayser Strauss wrote: > Anal retentive analysis? Does my irritation by static when I drove on the > wrong side of a mountain or into a concrete-jungle parking lot reflect a > disrespect of my music? I ask myself if you've ever actually LISTENED to a > CD before -- the difference between CD and cassette is amazing, unless > you're talking a strikingly high quality tape. I'm not anal, and I know > dick about music, but I like it to hear ALL of it when I'm blasting it out > of my speakers. People might be able to tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi in a blind taste test, but left on their own, drinking independently, the difference can only be told by soda-industry professionals. Sure, static is one thing, but it's NOT sound quality that's made CDs sell better than tapes, it's random access. Only idiot engineers working on sound quality have managed to fool themselves that their jobs are important. > You're not FORCED to use long distance phone companies. There are tons of > other ways to communicate, and YOU HAVE THE OPTION of employing any number > of them. Capitalism means choice, not necessarily monopoly. Yes, choice. Choice of your manager. Choice of a CEO. In other words a democracy of employees. Yes, choice. Choice of either more spending on research, or lower prices. Not choice of more corporate jets. In other words a democracy of consumers. Capitalism is just economic monarchy. The only difference between capitalism and traditional monarchy is that capitalists aren't limited to a given stretch of land. ------ I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books,alt.politics.socialism,alt.postmodern,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Honour in the Marketplace (was: Re: wealth) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:26:55 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Dylan Bryan-Dolman wrote: > "Maestro!" they cried (or Sensei or whatever), "Please, accept a > seat at the front of the house with us. The sound up there is so much > better!" > "Imagine," he said, "A sound being *better*." > The story was written as an obituary for Cage, and was intended to > show him off as a sweet, holy man. I thought it made him look like a > pompous old hypocrite. A CD sounds better than a cassette because of one thing: marketing. On its own, does a CD *really* sound much better than a radio? Those who have trained their ears to tell the difference, those who have trained themselves to have absolute pitch, have done nothing but ruined their own ability to appreciate of music without having to resort to anal retentive analysis. If long distance phone companies actually let their customers VOTE on either better sound or lower prices, the answer WILL be lower prices (unless, of course, we run a marketing campaign). Of course, lower prices is a bad thing under capitalism. Puts people out of work. ------- "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." -- Kurt Vonnegut
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.labor-unions,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: How much does national heath (sic) [no pun intended] care cost? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:09:28 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Chris Nelson wrote: > As if the cure of a single disease was all a malaria drug manufacturer was > good for. "Well, we've cured malaria! Three cheers for the anti-malaria > companies! Now take all those people out and shoot them." Exactly, or at least something similar to that. Under capitalism, if I ever reach the point of efficiency to make my job obsolete, I will make myself unemployed and fall into poverty. That's why everyone invents useless "features" to add to their products, "features" that nobody would even give a damn about if it weren't for marketing. We market Rogaine simply by showing people with hair in movies, we market diet pills simply by showing only thin TV reporters, we market contact lenses simply by spreading stories that people with glasses are geeks. -------- The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.socialism,alt.journalism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Internet Terrorism, Ozone Weapons, and more Government Paranoia: Reuters Date: 3 May 1997 06:43:14 GMT Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA In article 336A8AAC.5A40@geocities.com, T. Hobbes cyu@geocities.com wrote: >Wayne McGuire wrote: >> Ask yourself this: which political group in the >> world would stand to benefit most from an act of >> Muslim terrorism directed against a major American >> target in the U.S.? >> According to Victor Ostrovsky in his first book on >> the Mossad, Israel deliberately allowed Muslim >> terrorists to attack the marine barracks in >> Lebanon, in order to gain a propaganda windfall. >Propaganda is key. The fact is, World War I wasn't really >caused by nationalism or alliances. It was caused by vultures >in the press descending on conflict, in search of circulation. >Before mass communication, most conflicts ended before anyone >even knew about it. Today, the press is cold, the press is >heartless, the press wants only one thing - the Pulitzer. >Brave in reporting problems, afraid to offer solutions. Up >in arms over the death of a journalist, non-chalant over the >death of civilians. After all, those threatening violence >will get you much better ratings than those threatening peace. >Everybody wants a raise. >-------- >War hath no fury like a non-combatant. > -- C. Montague It has an additional effect that is essential to creating a passive and manipulatable populations. Trun off your TV and Radio for a week and you will see. The violent stories make people think that their environment is more dangerous than it is. This makes people more conservative. Conservatives love to characterize the media as liberal. A few print comentators are liberal, but most of the broadcast owners, and major newspapers are owned and managed by businessmen who are to the Right of the GOP. Media is seen as a way to sell consumerism and keep people in line. So much the better if you can turn these same people into canon fodder if they will fight their way in so that you can have new markets. Bruce Salem -- !! Just my opinions, maybe not those of my sponsor. !!
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.education.alternative,sci.econ,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,misc.education,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: Military Parasites (Re: Social Security) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:20:08 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mike wrote: > What this country needs to do is start closing military bases, and make > these military parasites actually do something productive for a living. > From my experience with the United States Airforce, and from my objective > observations of the other services (i.e. Army, Marines, Navy), the military > is nothing more then a way for parasites to get their lives subsidized by > the government. Agreed, at least on the productive point. Of course, if we REALLY wanted good foreign policy, we wouldn't close bases at all, but instead have our troops actually perform community service in various parts of the world. The only problem is, all of us super-patriots at home will complain that we're actually trying to defend our country by getting people to like Americans for a change. I can feed you a carrot or I can hit you over the head with it. ------ The best defense is not to play the game at all.
29.4.97 If a drug pusher hits you. From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.drugs,alt.politics.radical-left,rec.cannabis,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,rec.drugs.cannabis Subject: Re: Drugs 'n' stuff Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 16:12:35 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Kelly T. Conlon wrote: > For the last time; Human nature is perfectly capable of changing without > resorting to cops, courts and jails. We have not yet attempted to > criminalize the commercial distribution of tobacco, and virtually > everyone in the Western Hemisphere rejects the notion of criminalizing > alcohol. Yet, the consumption of both products has declined considerably > as people come to learn about the risks and benefits of smoking and > drinking. It's a battle over definitions. Those in power get to make the definitions. Anyone who attacks a Marlboro, Bud, or Coca- Cola supplier is accused of terrorism. Anyone who attacks a "merchant of death" is honored as a DEA or Coast Guard official. Hey, everyone needs a job. As for starving civilians with trade sanctions, hey, it's their own goddamn fault for being born under an autocracy, and with elitist "liberals" cheering on those trade sanctions. People die everyday. Politicians and journalists only panic when it's one of their own. --- It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished. ....unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. --Voltaire
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.drugs,alt.politics.radical-left,rec.cannabis,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Drugs 'n' stuff Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:59:16 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > On 29 Apr 1997 05:01:08 GMT, jwoodfor@unlgrad1.unl.edu (Jeffrey N > Woodford) wrote: > >It seems to me that legalizers view the world as a place which is full > >of unspeakable pain, suffering, and death; and there is very little > >that we can do that will substantially alleviate these problems. All > >we really can do is make life a bit more tolerable by letting people > >express themselves freely. The Drug War is just welfare for our law enforcement officers to feel useful, despite not doing anything productive. If a drug pusher hits you, fine, jail him. If a drug pusher lies or misrepresents himself, he's merely doing something that lawyers, politicians, and the press have been doing for centuries. ------ "A politician is someone who lies to the press, and believes what he reads the next day."
28.4.97 Moving in the opposite direction. 30.4.97 Free speech and communism. From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.reform,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Force..... & property rights in communication media Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 17:17:59 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Derek Nalecki wrote: > Free speech - you can say absolutely anything that does not directly > harm another human being (like shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre, if > I may appropriate that tired old cliche). > Communism - a social, economical and political system based on collective > ownership of all property, where the realtionship between members of the > collective is not defined and/or demarkated, but interpreted by the > collective "leadership". You mean, like, um, a democracy? Versus, what? Like corporate structure? Versus corporate autocracy? Versus corporate monarchy? I bet you don't even know WHY free speech has evolved to become a part of human philosophy. Free speech is as vital to the evolution of the knowledge pool as mutation is to the evolution of the gene pool. For thousands of years, human gene evolution has become useless, because the evolution of knowledge has made it largely irrelevant. Only cowards like you, afraid of the truth, are holding back the advancement of human civilization. ----------- Shouting fire in a crowded theater is only dangerous if you've raised a society of gullible panic-stricken idiots.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.clinton Subject: Re: Force..... & property rights in communication media Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:06:01 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Derek Nalecki wrote: > >The only path to freedom of speech is communism, and as long as > I do not think there is anything that needs to be added to this. Of course, that would depend on your definitions of free speech and communism. If you think there's free speech in this country, then you obviously think Ross Perot has as much free speech as a poor man on Death Row. If you think this "democratic" country achieved democracy or even a democratic republic, then obviously you believe people are out there contributing to campaigns and hiring lobbyists with no intention whatsoever of perverting votes. If you think other "communist" countries achieved communism, then obviously you think the working classes in those countries actually have power over the ruling classes. ------- Those who don't believe in the power of the press have obviously never taken a trip down to Grover's Mill with Orson Welles. Rosebud.
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.clinton Subject: Re: Force..... & property rights in communication media Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:18:58 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. JMH wrote: > I doesn't seem to me that the information generated by this > private markets is being rarified by these ultra-capitalistic > entities, i.e. the privately owned security exchanges. Also, > these changes have not occurred due to some regulatory intervention > to "level" the playing feilds. In short, these ultra-capitalists > are doing the exact opposite from what you claim they should be > doing. Aren't they always? Money can me buy a whole team of professional liars like the CATO Institute. Even the ACLU, run by wealthy lawyers, an organization with a sham of a democracy, guided by autocrats whenever real push comes to shove. Sure, they trot out their token minority spokespeople, like sacrificial lambs. Decades from now, they will be honored as fools and remembered as nobodies. The only path to freedom of speech is communism, and as long as the rich have more say than the poor, then there is no excuse for moving in the opposite direction. ------ Those who don't believe in the power of the press have obviously never taken a trip down to Grover's Mill with Orson Welles. Rosebud.
24.4.97 After all that Cold War propaganda. 9.5.97 13:40 Before you can define thuggery. 9.5.97 14:01 Why people argue. 12.5.97 The only angels. 13.5.97 17:15 Idiots who have confused self-pride with self-worth. 14.5.97 14:59 They won't burn in hell. 14.5.97 15:18 Used by tin men to control their lions. 15.5.97 14:50 The Leader of the Free World could go completely bonkers. 15.5.97 15:03 Pavlov's dogs are poor. 16.5.97 17:37 If there's self-censorship in the press. 16.5.97 18:01 The downfall of Sodom. 20.5.97 15:54 A contradiction in terms. 20.5.97 16:08 Leave objects where they are. 7.6.97 Quite easy to claim their goal. 13.6.97 Who is the parasite? From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:45:47 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Gene Johannsen wrote: > Oh, and if you threaten someone's life, I hope you get arrested > and rot in jail. > The real answer is: When both parties agree to it. If someone > wants to give me a meal for three of my toe-nail clippings, I'd > probably say yes. Who am I to decide how valuable my toe-nail > clippings are to them. Ah, an AGREEMENT! Now you finally understand the difference between democracy and autocracy. If there weren't guns and handcuffs to dictate property, there wouldn't be property. Face it, we both know you care nothing about agreement or disagreement. You just want the "right" to run your own little monarchy (or you've been hired as the official AssKisser du Jour). --------- Property grows out of the barrel of a gun.
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:38:34 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Gene Johannsen wrote: > 2) Redefining capitalists as parasites is also a laugh. Parasites live > at another's expense. If someone takes maney from me without just > compensation, by law (as in a socialist society, let's say) or not, > they are parasites, living at my expense. > The only problem I see is that it would be hard to find a parasite in > the animal kingdom that also preys on it's own kind. Imagine this: I take food from a farmer in exchange for letting him live. Who is the parasite? I take food from a farmer in exchange for the emperor's new clothes. Who is the parasite? I take food from a farmer in exchange for fool's gold. Who is the parasite? I take food from a farmer in exchange for real gold. Who is the parasite? I take food from a farmer in exchange for green slips of paper. Who is the parasite? At what point does a fake representation of wealth become a real representation of wealth? The answer is: when both sides have been brainwashed. ---------- Immigration (TM) is a boogeyman invented by slave masters to draw attention away from their autocracy. Limited Resources (TM) is a religion invented by financiers who think patent law is more productive than marine farming.
From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 15:40:08 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James A. Donald wrote: > > * You CHOOSE to pay mortgage interest because you had the option > > of paying rent instead; you CHOOSE to pay rent because you had > > the option of paying mortgage interest instead. > And under socialism someone else will build houses for us? > Yeah, right. Typical of a dog well trained by TV marketing to drool after whatever image is put in front of his face every night. The only people who actually need housing are those who don't have it and actually want it. If the goal of a construction company is to rake in currency, then it will rake in currency as the expense of building homes. It is quite easy for autocrats to CLAIM their goal is to build homes, and then forget all about it a day later, and fire subordinates who actually WANT to achieve the stated goal. THAT is why consumer and employee democracy ensure the company is always on track. ----------- Shift would always say, "Now, Puzzle, I understand what needs to be done better than you. You know you're not clever Puzzle." And Puzzle always said, "No, Shift. It's quite true. I'm not clever." Then he would sigh and do whatever Shift had said.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:08:31 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Derek Nalecki wrote: > >Why not just own whatever little portion of land you're > >currently standing on? A mini-sphere of influence if > What if you want to move. Or is it like all socialist arrangments, a > cell in a jailhouse. > >you will. Of course, this would only work under > >cooperative socialism. > Iiiii knew it. Been there, done that (Poland 1957-1977). What part of "currently" don't you understand? Does "currently" mean one point in time, or the CURRENT point in time? Christ almighty. Objects simply exist. Either everyone convinces each other to leave objects where they are, or the word comes "down from above" to leave objects where they are. There's no such thing as cooperation if brainwashing is only one-directional. ------ The two sides of mass communication: credible and gullible.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.socialism,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:54:50 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Paul D. Lanier wrote: > Well, hmmm. Stern didn't do the Livertarian cause much good with that > joke. Thanks for telling me the last time you saw a Libertarian. > I am _ not_ presently aligned with the Libs. myself, but it is fairly > frightening how little people seem to be informed about political parties > in the US, except for the Republican and Democratic Parties. The Libertarian Party is a contradiction in terms. They claim to believe in Freedom (TM) and are enslaved by their own ideals. They claim to believe in some sort of limited anarchy, but cannot throw off the shackles of their own platform. A bunch of loser joiners who seek nothing but self-affirmation in a support group of loser joiners. -------- Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:01:46 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > > You mean that the local news personalities are responsible for the > > downfall of Sodom? Almost. Media God sees complacency. Media God sees laziness. Media God reports it to apathetic sheep. Over and over. Until He ignites their ire. And the sheep take up arms and destroy Sodom. History is a battle for circulation, and the most entertaining target HAS to be another human being, whether rich, poor, black, white, male, female, it matters not. So long as it makes the listener feel superior enough to go slit some throats. ------ Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:37:17 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Paul D. Lanier wrote: > > > So, why am I to be convinced that Socialism would be any different here, than > > > in North Korea?? Particularly in the long run? > > Depends on your definition of socialism. If it means no one > > is starving, then that's what welfare is. If it means democratic > > control of the means of communication, then neither country has > But at the back of this: what's the purpose? What's your point? The point is that there's NO democratic society without a democratic press. Democracy must start somewhere. If it doesn't start with communication, then we can never be guaranteed that it is achieved. If there's self-censorship in the press, we'll never know there's self-censorship in the press. -------- Conquer fear. Question faith. Humor distraction. Thou shalt not make any graven image, or bow down before any creation in heaven or on earth.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:03:11 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James Doemer wrote: > > And what about those who do work hard, who have 2 jobs each, each > > parent working, with no time for their kids or really that much of > > anything, and the best they do is maybe lower middle class or working > > class? > I found no shame in being lower middle or working class when I was there, are > you saying that your socialism would make everyone rich then?? No one would > have to work?? Or, which would be more believable, that your socialism would > put everyone in the position of lower middle/working class, and it would demand > an increasing amount of people's time/effort as the decades rolled passed. Pavlov's dogs are poor. Whether they are media moguls in search of power, politicians in search of pride, or peons in search of wealth and sex. It's not so much GETTING what you want, but the HOPE of getting what you want that keeps people going. A cold peace results when everyone instantly becomes satisfied with what they have. A warm peace results when everyone is satisfied, but finds hope that there is more for everyone... somewhere. But of course, We the Peons will forever be smacking eachother for wealth, pride, sex, influence, ratings, whatever. ------- Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:50:00 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Guru George wrote: > >I was recently reading an article about how the CEO of Disney > >employs people in Haiti for 12 cents an hour, while *he* has > >an income of $9,000.00 per hour. Now I suppose a true believer > >in capitalism will explain that by saying there is a ratio of > >72,000 to 1 in his level of ambition, intelligence, creativity, > >etc., compared to an individual of the poorer group. I think > >a better explanation would be one that has the phrase "bitter, > >ruthless exploitation" in it. > No, it means that Disney's owners estimate that there is a ratio of > 72,000 to 1 in the value of the work he does for Disney compared with > the value of what one of those people in Haiti does for Disney. Sheer stupidity on the part of the CEO for being lured by such a salary in the first place. Or even lured by the prestige of running Disney. He is Pavlov's dog as much as the rest of his employees. > It means that Disney's owners estimate that if you gave one of those > Haitian people the task of running Disney tomorrow, the company would > probably fall apart in a few days. Incorrect. You are assuming everyone will actually LISTEN to a stupid CEO. Fact is, the Leader of the Free World could go completely bonkers, and nobody would listen to him unless they were brainwashed into listening to him. It's the power to brainwash that makes him valuable. Pavlov's Laws of Mutual Brainwashing: Repetition: The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers. Mutation: Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line. Skepticism: If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it? Absorption: Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant. Focus: Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle. ------- He'll sit here and he'll say, "Do this! Do that!" And nothing will happen. - Harry S. Truman, on presidential power
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:18:16 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Bicketts wrote: > Also, I think there should be a right to food and shelter- not to a > mansion and caviar or nothing, just a right not to starve. > And I right to equal education- absolutely necesary. That don't > mean your forced to go to public education, just that you can if you > want. > And how about a right to vital medical care? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life comes from food, shelter, and medical care. Liberty will come after we abolish contempt of court and subpoena laws, as well as regulations against insubordination. The pursuit of happiness will be regained when we stop denying people the ability to brainwash each other. Laws are but repetitive suggestions used by tin men to control their lions. There is no free will in this country. ------- Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:59:27 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Giovanni 8 wrote: > So long as the strikers do not initiate force against people who > work despite a union or wild-cat strike they should be able to > come and go without any force being used at all. If they aren't > attacked, or blocked from entrance or egress, then there's not > likely to be a problem. And, if company detectives or guards > do not initiate force or fraud, either, then there is none. Fraud is perfectly OK. Fraud is what lawyers, politicians, marketers, and the press make a living doing. Bodily force is the ONLY force that cannot be initiated. Too bad "law enforcement" has been brainwashed into doing all the force initiation by their brainwashers who sit behind desks. Why do they let this happen? Autocratic self-censorship has destroyed our individuality. In 3 words: History is bunk. Police officers die everyday protecting inanimate objects and lame ideals. They won't burn in hell when they die, because they are burning at the bottom of the power pyramid right now. ------- War hath no fury like a non-combatant. -- C. Montague
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:15:42 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Black Dragon wrote: > > There's only one zoo where we can see unreasonable humans: the media. > Nope . .there's also the Rush Limbaugh show and GOP TV. Lots of > unreasonable nutcases there . .. and Nazis, too. You don't count those as the media? If fact, every attempt at communication counts as the media. Most of the people who we ASSUME are "unreasonable" are simply idiots who have confused self-pride with self-worth. -------- If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it?
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,sci.econ,can.politics,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:12:39 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jeffery C McLean wrote: > It's also Darwinism.. the strong survive... Actually, strong SOCIETIES survive. Those that have given up on punishment and gone on to do actually useful things... like welfare and mutual brainwashing...ahem...I meant education. Been happening for ages mate. Sodom wasn't really about sex. It was about complacency. Any society that finally realizes the difference between goal and reward tends to get lazy. But it's NOT destroyed by God. It's destroyed by the media. Either the media destroys the complacency or it destroys the society (ie. racism or nationalism). THAT is why free speech must be preserved. If at least to let the one last sane brainwasher do the dirty work. The only angels are the members of the media that still have their heads screwed on straight. Too bad there's too much self-censorship within the media to create more. ------- There's only one zoo where we can see unreasonable humans: the media.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 14:01:30 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Victor Levis wrote: > Democracy is perfectly legitimate as a means of decision-making........so > long as the choice is between two morally acceptable alternatives. But > democracy does not turn an immoral act into a moral one just because a > bigger gang is calling for it. This is the whole reason for introducing > constitutions into democracy, to protect against abuse of power by the > majority. The task at hand is to make sure that the constitutions are > well-thought out and sufficiently respectful of individual rights. It would depend on your definition of democracy. Whether it's 50%, 60%, 75%, or 100%. Surely the most BASIC rights should be decided only by 100% democracy. What we're talking about is WHY people argue with eachother in the first place. It's because conflicts resolved by education rather than violence is more likely to result in the survival of both parties. Like duh. Freedom of expression is the TOOL. Political / military equality ensure rulers will listen. Economic equality ensures the ruled will be heard. ------- There's only one zoo where we can see unreasonable humans: the media.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 13:40:35 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Victor Levis wrote: > Of course, no one, including Ms. Mitchell, believes that hard-core > communists make up 36% of the population. Furthermore, I think a Civil > Society would require stronger action on the part of the proponents of his > kind of 'libertarion' before jail or banishment could be justified. SImply > writing words as Mr. Lepore did wouldn't suffice in my books. But I have no > problem with jailing a person convicted by a jury of his peers of committing > thuggery. Of course, "peers" has to be defined before you can define thuggery. The only REAL peers are those who think almost exactly like the suspect. Of course, victims would scream bloody murder, so they need protection as well. 6 peers of the suspect. 6 peers of the victim. REAL debate. (Nonviolent of course.) Challenge EVERY aspect of the laws themselves. Not sweeping problems with the current justice system under the rug. Nobody needs to know the identity of the jury. Heck, with today's technology, the jury members themselves don't even have to know eachother's identity. But at least make the transcripts public. Everybody else might even learn something. ----- Everybody wants to redirect the crosshairs. Nobody thinks about putting down the gun.
From: John Bicketts sfeikema@mach3ww.com Newsgroups: alt.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.theory,a,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Socialism Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:14:30 -0500 James Doemer wrote: > feline wrote: > > Curt Howland wrote: > > > Mike Lepore wrote: > > > > That is nonsense. Socialism is simply people's recognition > > > > that we can produce goods and services for the direct reason > > > > that we choose to have goods and services, rather than > > > > produce goods and services for the purpose of having someone > > > > take advantage of others financially. > > > Nope. That's "communism". > > > Socialism is state control of the means of production > > > and distribution. > > > The reason that Socialism is often violent is because > > > it is FORCED control. > > Socialism is only "forced" in the sense that it manifests itself > > democratically. > Force by a mob is no better than force by an individual, at least with an > employer I have other choices, I can work for a less tyranical employer, or > start my own business. > > One of Curt's many problems is that he entirely rejects > > any notion of democracy and sees the application of economic tyranny (or > > force) as the only legitimate means of government. That is the tyranny > > of the employer over the employee a relation which he always > > conveniently forgets to mention. > Hey, if you can come up with a system that negates both the tyranny of the mob, > and the tyranny of an employer, I would be more than happy to listen to it. In > the meantime, I choose the employer, people generally have more choices under the > employer, and the employer can only fire you for non-production. The mob tends to > hire gunmen and jailers for those who step out of line. The assertion that democracy= mob rule is an old and rather silly attack on it made by numerous fascists, monarchists, and (in this case) crypto-fascists. Their usual solution is to give rule to those who 'have the competence to rule'- never mind that these people usually explot their position for their own gain. It's kind of funny, after all that Cold War propaganda, to find the socialists defending democracy and the capitalists attacking it, on this thread. In fact it's downright hilarious. Though not surprising, at all... - John Bicketts Send email to sfeikema@mach3ww.com Due to unreliable newsfeed, please email AND post replies

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