From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,alt.law-enforcement,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: Bombs, guns, militias and the NRA
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:22:30 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

BOUNKEY wrote:
> What the hell do you expect the NRA to do? I don't ever recall hearing
> the NRA argue that anyone has a right to build bombs or to plant bombs
> or to rob banks. You anti-gun nuts are funny.

And so what if people DO build bombs? The problem, of course,
is that there's no social equality in this control, so we
resort to military equality to right wrongs.  The SPIRIT of
the Second Amendment was that INDEED citizens be given as
much power as the government.  Nuclear weapons if necessary.
Force rich and poor, powerful and powerless, rulers and
ruled to work together, or else die trying.  Idiots, of
course, try to implement military equality without any other
kind of equality...and so they die trying.

6.5.97 Not that it matters.

From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.politics.socialism,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Tax the Poor!
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:26:38 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Roy Langston wrote:
> As a general rule, anyone who talks about "taxing the rich" via income tax
> is a liar who is hoping to divert your attention from the fact that the
> rich are by definition rich in _assets_, not necessarily income, and that
> in its ease of administration and compliance, its effects on the economy
> and people's behaviour, and its fundamental fairness and morality, an
> asset tax would be far _far_ superior to the income tax.

Of course, money is just paper and numbers. Assets are just
objects.  The value of which are determined by whoever has
power over various financial or commodity markets.  The real
solution, of course, is employee and consumer democracy.
Capitalists, of course, don't believe their subordinates
can make the right decisions.  They themselves, like Kings,
don't know enough to teach them what the right choices are
anyway.  And so they pretend they know more, just so they
can keep their jobs and avoid listening to new ideas.
------
In a world lost in propaganda and censorship,
the real truth is spoken only by liars and fools.

From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions
Subject: Re: Tax the Poor!
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 17:55:13 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
> typical LIbERal.  always looking for more taxes.  just cut
> government.  we need to get rid of government tit-sucking
> LIbERalS like you.

Cut government bureaucracy so we can support a bigger
and better corporate bureaucracy?  Not that it really
matters either way.  There's no real democratic control
of either one.

From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Health insurance does not insure that much
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:55:13 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Roger Tinkoff wrote:
> Tell me why Communism is some terrible, evil force we have to stamp
> out of countries who choose to run their governments that way.  There
> is only one reason I can think of why our government would want to
> stamp it out.  That is because our politicians need to promote the
> "economic growth" of our industries, and communist governments perhaps
> don't allow US goods to be marketed there.

It's an ego thing. We can't accept that someone else is
different from us. Surely we're better. Every politician
needs to make their own citizens so "proud" of their
country that they need to go attack other ones. Only the
most stupid countries aren't willing to trade paper bills
for food, or shiny rocks for equipment.  Only in the most
stupid of economies will importing more *real* products
and giving information away for free drive people into
poverty.

5.5.97 A swarm of flies.

From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.socialism,alt.journalism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Internet Terrorism, Ozone... PROPAGANDA?
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:41:01 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

DivineHammer@pipeline.com wrote:
> >War is caused by not enough communication.
> It would be great if it was that simple, but unfortunately, your
> interpretation appears to be what is simplistic.  (So all we needed to
> do was to communicate with Hitler??  Don't think so....)

As a matter of fact, YES. Someone should've told him that gene
evolution is irrelevant the minute intelligent life evolves
the ability to educate and the ability to manipulate the
environment around it.  Then life reaches the next stage of
evolution: knowledge and philosophy.  This new stage of
evolution, of course, can't happen if you're killing off anyone
who doesn't think exactly like you do.

Someone should've told him that there IS no inherent value
to gold or "fine" art.  That it's just a capitalist pyramid
scheme. That real value is in labor, labor that isn't very
productive if it has no incentive to work.  And idiot
capitalists still wonder why Germany suffered hyper-inflation
when they went and robbed the world of gold and art to
support the war effort.
-------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.

From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.socialism,alt.journalism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Internet Terrorism, Ozone... PROPAGANDA?
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 18:53:00 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

ncorp wrote:
> >>Propaganda is key. The fact is, World War I wasn't really
> >>caused by nationalism or alliances. It was caused by vultures
> >>in the press descending on conflict, in search of circulation.
> I don't mean to be rude, I respect your point of view, but you say "WWI... was
> caused by..." who? Do you mean to imply that WWI wasn't actually caused after
> all by greedy, self-centered, short-tempered power-hungry oligarches trying to
> maintain "appearances," and save their own miserable cowardly asses?

Crime is caused by no communication. Social injustice is caused
by one-sided communication. War is caused by not enough
communication.  Your average journalist is more concerned with
his credibility and "exposing" the problem than *solving* the
problem.  Gotta be impartial. Gotta APPEAR impartial. Everyone
knows there's no such thing as an impartial press, except the
press. But terrorists and law enforcement alike feel like they
have to play the media game. Whenever the press shows up, pride,
honor, their very JOBS are at stake!
--------
Nothing attracts a swarm of flies like a pile of shit.

2.5.97 Walking barefoot.

From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: sci.econ,talk.politics.theory,alt.activism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.youth,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.socialism,soc.culture.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.rights.human,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: The Death Penalty: Pro Life?
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 18:07:35 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Desmond Coughlan wrote:
> Oh, here we go again.  I'm opposed to the death penalty, so I'm a "wimp".
> Hey, guess what, Jose: I ate quiche last week.  Not only that, I cry at
> "Watership Down", and I do the dishes occasionally.

The only cowards are the ones who want someone else to
do their fighting for them.  When someone robs a bank,
who has to chase after those green bags of paper?  Risking
life and limb for what?  Green paper?  Honor?  Pride?
Loyalty?  Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep
their pawns in line.  We are a vengeful society because
society teaches us vengeance.  What?  Go help the hungry?
But they'll charge me with violating their airspace! Under-
mining the Peace Process (TM)! Insubordination!  Being a BAD
person! Think of the paperwork!
--------
The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the
poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread.  -- Anatole France

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.activism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.youth,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.socialism,soc.culture.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.rights.human,sci.econ,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: The Death Penalty: Pro Life?
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 16:49:22 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Rt.Rev.Dr.Jeff Ganaposki wrote:
> I find myself arguing for capital punishment - but the caveat is that
> I don't think government is competent to do the job right.
> The common law is best enforced by people who respect private property
> rights and will not tolerate those who abuse the person or property of
> another, for gain, or for kicks.

Only supporters of the death penalty deserve to be executed.
-------
"He that scatters thorns, let him not go barefoot."
        - Benjamin Franklin

30.4.97 A real public hostile takeover.

From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism,alt.society.liberalism,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: Easier, Fairer Taxes
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:46:35 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Mark Friesel wrote:
> Oh, I wasn't asking about what 'standing' meant.  Hey!  I am curious
> about your opinion on one thing, though.  Say we continued to develop
> more powerful weapons until we reached the point that we had a hand
> weapon that could vaporized, say, a small city.  Should such a weapon
> be banned or not?

No doubt it will happen. No doubt the range will increase
to inter-continental distances. Invention is as unavoidable
as truth. The world will either end in fire, or in
cooperation.  We can either wait and see, or start in one
of those directions right now.  As long as there's poverty,
as long as there's despair, there will be violence.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,rec.collecting.paper-money,misc.invest.stocks,misc.invest,alt.society.liberalism,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Easier, Fairer Taxes
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:58:58 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Big Oh wrote:
> No company pays taxes.  All taxes and fees imposed on business are passed
> on to the buyer/consumer of their products and services by being included
> in the prices charged for those products and services.  Raising taxes on
> business only raises the prices on the products and services provided.
> Eventually, all of those taxes and fees imposed on business are paid by the
> individual because the individual can't arbitrarily pass them on to anyone
> else -- the individual is the final consumer.

You could say the same thing about individuals as well.
No rich man pays taxes. Because he has the power to control
prices, any tax increase on him will just result in higher
prices.  The surest way for financial companies to improve
their stock price is to invest in themselves.  You can even
say there's no such thing as a real public hostile takeover.
If it's not over by the time the stock market reacts, then
it just becomes a ploy to scam gullible investors. A game of
chicken producting no more REAL wealth than an afternoon's
entertainment.

If we want to stop talking in circles, then we need to
start talking about democracy and free speech in the
workplace.
-------
Shouting fire in a crowded theater is only dangerous if you've
raised a society of gullible panic-stricken idiots.

30.4.97 Next on the grocery list.
2.5.97 Opiate of the masses.
5.5.97 17:33 And then they wonder.
5.5.97 17:38 The only question is who decides.
8.5.97 Debt laws and you.
12.5.97 The world would be no worse off.
14.5.97 Simple economics.

From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:58:53 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

markhornberger@nietzsche.net wrote:
> But big government is more conducive to graft and corruption - Russia,
> Japan, China, etc all bearing testament to this fact.  The more power you
> have concentrated in any one entity, the greater will be the potential
> and enticement for abuse of that power.

Big Government. Big Business. Same fucking thing. Size matters
not. What matters is the chain of communication. Idiot
hierarchies that go top-down leave a few "brains" at the top
doing the thinking for the thousands or millions below. And
then they wonder why nothing ever gets done.  Democracy is
NOT a goal in itself.  Democracy is a TOOL that will give
subordinates the COURAGE to voice their thoughts. Freedom of
speech, a ban on execution, job security. These are ALL tools
to encourage the generation of new (or rediscovery of old)
ideas.  And it is an abundance of ideas that not only moves
society forward, but promotes rational thought by encouraging
skepticism. Like duh.
------
The two sides of mass communication: credible and gullible.

From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.politics.usa.republican,misc.invest.stocks,alt.president.clinton,misc.taxes,talk.politics.misc,misc.invest,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:39:26 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

A Radical Republican wrote:
> Weren't you going by W. Wonka earlier ??  Either way, if you don't
> understand simple economics, then don't argue them...

Here's simple economics for you:
Marketing creates greed. Marketing defines beauty.
Invisible hand = professional brainwashers.
Currency = emperor's new clothes.
Stock market = pyramid scheme.
There is INDEED a free lunch, because real value comes from human
labor... Digging up "precious metals" is just counterfeiting.
It's amazing how fake idiots like you can get away with denying
the truth. THAT is why the power to brainwash needs to be distributed
among as many people as possible:

Pavlov's Laws of Mutual Brainwashing:
Repetition: The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.
Mutation: Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.
Skepticism: If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it?
Absorption: Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant.
Focus: Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.
---------
Only capitalists see the emperor's new clothes.

From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:54:18 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Big Bopper wrote:
> Run up $30,000 on your credit card and then tell them,"They're numbers,
> ya dimwit, NUMBERS! Paper, shiny rocks,  graven images, the emperor's
> new clothes.  It doesn't make a different WHO has those numbers" I know
> they will just go away impressed with your lodgic and grasp of
> economics. Your a liberal all right. I can see how your only weapon is
> emotion with no subtance, because you have no lodgic of thought.

They are in fact numbers. I could stop asking for credit,
and the world would be no worse off. I could not pay it
back and the world would be no worse off.  Every computer
containing financial information could crash tomorrow and
the world would be no worse off.  Why?  Because numbers
and currency are mere units of exchange for human labor.
It would only be a tragedy if human labor or equipment
was lost.
--------
If you can't think for yourself, don't even try thinking
for anyone else.

From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 16:41:50 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Big Bopper wrote:
> When a government can't pay for what it hands out future generations
> must be taxed to pay for the debt. The more you want now will only tax
> you children more when they grow up. It's a heartless view of selfish
> people that will sell their children in to a debt like that.

Hello! Have you bought your latest brain this week? If
I give you a dollar, I can either expect that back (DEBT)
or I can NOT expect that back (GRANT).  The only thing
that obligates me to return debts are debt laws and you.
They're numbers, ya dimwit, NUMBERS! Paper, shiny rocks,
graven images, the emperor's new clothes.  It doesn't make a
different WHO has those numbers.  What DOES matter is if
those numbers are used to dig up MORE shiny rocks, to
invent MORE lies and half-truths, or spent doing something
USEFUL, like spreading knowledge or improving food production.
---------
We are the music makers -- and we are the dreamers of the dreams.

From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.journalism.critism,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:38:01 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

A Radical Republican wrote:
> >Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich.
> And freedom to take for the liberals..

A government takes. An employer takes. The only question
is who decides how that excess money will be spent.
-------
It's amazing how idiots can reconcile capitalist "democracy"
in politics with autocratic "communism" at work.

From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.journalism.critism,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:33:30 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

A Radical Republican wrote:
> And that means that those with much should be FORCED to give away a
> larger percentage than us median individuals ?  I believe that
> religion does not advocate a state imposed responsibility, but teaches
> it is what is need for a healthy spiritual life.  As an analogy, would
> you advocate the state mandating the eating of fish for friday dinner
> to promote a healthy physical life ?

And why should Kings be FORCED to listen to citizens?
The fact is, decisions have to be made under corporate
structure.  These decisions can either be done
democratically or autocratically. That's the difference
between election and appointment.  Capitalists, of course,
don't actually believe their subordinates have any good
ideas.  That's why they give bad reviews to any employee
that dares to disagree.  And then they wonder why their
employees never come up with any ideas different from
their own.
-------
Experience doesn't breed wisdom.
Experience breeds brainwashing.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.journalism.critism,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit" ??
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 16:36:18 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Craig Fletcher wrote:
> Required community service?

Required community service is just another word for slavery.
On the other hand, if you offer to provide a living wage to
any lawyer, marketer, or stock broker that's willing to quit
his job and go do community service, then they might actually
get to do something productive for the first time in their
lives.

> Communism does not work.  It is contrary to human nature.  You can
> deny this fact just as you can deny the fact that gravity exists.  Yet
> denying gravity will not keep you from falling flat on your face if you
> ignore it and jump off a building.  Every example of communism has
> failed why bring it to the U.S.

You mean every example of *autocracy*.  There's no such thing as
communism if the working class can't elect the ruling class.
"Dictatorship of the proletariat" is just another way of saying
employee democracy... after it's been passed through the
capitalist propaganda strainer. Religion is as much an "opiate
of the masses" as the illusion of democracy and free speech that
we have in this country.  Capitalist spin-doctors, of course,
love to pounce on this phrase, saying communists will destroy
freedom of religion, when in fact, every major religion teaches
"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
-------
Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.journalism.critism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.media,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Who has decided that there is a need for a "Volunteerism Summit"  ??
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:31:14 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

A Radical Republican wrote:
> I THOUGHT it was a non-political event, WHY is it called the
> "President's Summit ??",  wasn't someone else supposed to
> the the chair of the event ??

One word: glory. Once a person has enough money, enough sex,
enough fame, the next thing on the grocery list is glory.
After they get enough glory, they'll get down to some serious
business, like ending poverty and warfare, so that society
can enter the final phase of evolution: exploration.
-------
Freedom of speech was a concept invented by a woman, whether her male
counterparts realized it or not. But it matters not whether the play was
written by Shakespeare or Byron.

30.4.97 Because of one thing.
1.5.97 16:14 Limited to a given stretch of land.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books,alt.politics.socialism,alt.postmodern,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Honour in the Marketplace (was: Re: wealth)
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:26:11 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Thomas R Scudder wrote:
> Jane Austen reads better than Carolyn Keene because of one thing:
> lit-crit pomposity.  On its own, does Austen *really* entertain much
> more than Keene?  Those who have trained their sensibilities to
> tell the difference, those who have trained themselves to have
> critical facilities, have done nothing but ruined their own ability
> to appreciate books without having to resort to anal retentive analysis.
> If publishers actually let the customers VOTE on either better books
> or lower prices, the answer WILL be lower prices (unless, of course,
> we indulge in specious education).  Of course, lower prices are a
> bad thing under capitalism.  Puts people out of work.

Yep, specious education.  How useful are all those lame SAT
words you learned in high school now?  They're not. But at
least it kept your English teachers and those classist bozos
at ETS employed.  Schools teach literature for one purpose
only: exposure to more ideas and more viewpoints.  Of course,
that has long been forgotten as teachers have been brainwashed
into testing the most irrelevant facts from each story. How
else can they tell if one human being is better than another
human being?  Cliff's Notes almost saved the world a ton of
time, until, of course, they were killed by capitalists trying
to keep their own jobs.
----------
Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books,alt.politics.socialism,alt.postmodern,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Honour in the Marketplace (was: Re: wealth)
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:14:24 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

G. Kayser Strauss wrote:
> Anal retentive analysis?  Does my irritation by static when I drove on the
> wrong side of a mountain or into a concrete-jungle parking lot reflect a
> disrespect of my music?  I ask myself if you've ever actually LISTENED to a
> CD before -- the difference between CD and cassette is amazing, unless
> you're talking a strikingly high quality tape.  I'm not anal, and I know
> dick about music, but I like it to hear ALL of it when I'm blasting it out
> of my speakers.

People might be able to tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi
in a blind taste test, but left on their own, drinking independently,
the difference can only be told by soda-industry professionals. Sure,
static is one thing, but it's NOT sound quality that's made CDs sell
better than tapes, it's random access.  Only idiot engineers working
on sound quality have managed to fool themselves that their jobs
are important.

> You're not FORCED to use long distance phone companies.  There are tons of
> other ways to communicate, and YOU HAVE THE OPTION of employing any number
> of them.  Capitalism means choice, not necessarily monopoly.

Yes, choice.  Choice of your manager. Choice of a CEO.  In other
words a democracy of employees.  Yes, choice.  Choice of either
more spending on research, or lower prices.  Not choice of more
corporate jets.  In other words a democracy of consumers.
Capitalism is just economic monarchy. The only difference
between capitalism and traditional monarchy is that capitalists
aren't limited to a given stretch of land.
------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books,alt.politics.socialism,alt.postmodern,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Honour in the Marketplace (was: Re: wealth)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:26:55 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Dylan Bryan-Dolman wrote:
>      "Maestro!" they cried (or Sensei or whatever), "Please, accept a
> seat at the front of the house with us.  The sound up there is so much
> better!"
>      "Imagine," he said, "A sound being *better*."
>      The story was written as an obituary for Cage, and was intended to
> show him off as a sweet, holy man.  I thought it made him look like a
> pompous old hypocrite.

A CD sounds better than a cassette because of one thing:
marketing.  On its own, does a CD *really* sound much
better than a radio?  Those who have trained their ears
to tell the difference, those who have trained themselves
to have absolute pitch, have done nothing but ruined their
own ability to appreciate of music without having to resort
to anal retentive analysis.  If long distance phone companies
actually let their customers VOTE on either better sound or
lower prices, the answer WILL be lower prices (unless, of
course, we run a marketing campaign).  Of course, lower
prices is a bad thing under capitalism. Puts people out of
work.
-------
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and
finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us.  "He is full of
murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by
their ignorance the hard way."
                -- Kurt Vonnegut

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.labor-unions,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: How much does national heath (sic) [no pun intended] care cost?
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:09:28 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Chris Nelson wrote:
> As if the cure of a single disease was all a malaria drug manufacturer was
> good for.  "Well, we've cured malaria!  Three cheers for the anti-malaria
> companies!  Now take all those people out and shoot them."

Exactly, or at least something similar to that. Under capitalism,
if I ever reach the point of efficiency to make my job
obsolete, I will make myself unemployed and fall into poverty.
That's why everyone invents useless "features" to add to their
products, "features" that nobody would even give a damn about
if it weren't for marketing.  We market Rogaine simply by showing
people with hair in movies, we market diet pills simply by
showing only thin TV reporters, we market contact lenses simply
by spreading stories that people with glasses are geeks.
--------
The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.

From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.socialism,alt.journalism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Internet Terrorism, Ozone Weapons, and more Government Paranoia: Reuters
Date: 3 May 1997 06:43:14 GMT
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article 336A8AAC.5A40@geocities.com, T. Hobbes cyu@geocities.com wrote:
>Wayne McGuire wrote:
>> Ask yourself this: which political group in the
>> world would stand to benefit most from an act of
>> Muslim terrorism directed against a major American
>> target in the U.S.?
>> According to Victor Ostrovsky in his first book on
>> the Mossad, Israel deliberately allowed Muslim
>> terrorists to attack the marine barracks in
>> Lebanon, in order to gain a propaganda windfall.
>Propaganda is key. The fact is, World War I wasn't really
>caused by nationalism or alliances. It was caused by vultures
>in the press descending on conflict, in search of circulation.
>Before mass communication, most conflicts ended before anyone
>even knew about it.  Today, the press is cold, the press is
>heartless, the press wants only one thing - the Pulitzer.
>Brave in reporting problems, afraid to offer solutions. Up
>in arms over the death of a journalist, non-chalant over the
>death of civilians. After all, those threatening violence
>will get you much better ratings than those threatening peace.
>Everybody wants a raise.
>--------
>War hath no fury like a non-combatant.
>                -- C. Montague

        It has an additional effect that is essential to creating
a passive and manipulatable populations. Trun off your TV and
Radio for a week and you will see. The violent stories make people
think that their environment is more dangerous than it is. This
makes people more conservative. Conservatives love to characterize
the media as liberal. A few print comentators are liberal, but most
of the broadcast owners, and major newspapers are owned and managed
by businessmen who are to the Right of the GOP. Media is seen as a
way to sell consumerism and keep people in line. So much the better
if you can turn these same people into canon fodder if they will
fight their way in so that you can have new markets.

Bruce Salem
-- 
!! Just my opinions, maybe not those of my sponsor. !!

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.education.alternative,sci.econ,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,misc.education,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Military Parasites (Re: Social Security)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:20:08 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Mike wrote:
> What this country needs to do is start closing military bases, and make
> these military parasites actually do something productive for a living.
> From my experience with the United States Airforce, and from my objective
> observations of the other services (i.e. Army, Marines, Navy), the military
> is nothing more then a way for parasites to get their lives subsidized by
> the government.

Agreed, at least on the productive point. Of course, if we REALLY
wanted good foreign policy, we wouldn't close bases at all, but
instead have our troops actually perform community service in
various parts of the world.  The only problem is, all of us
super-patriots at home will complain that we're actually trying
to defend our country by getting people to like Americans for a
change.  I can feed you a carrot or I can hit you over the head
with it.
------
The best defense is not to play the game at all.

29.4.97 If a drug pusher hits you.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.drugs,alt.politics.radical-left,rec.cannabis,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,rec.drugs.cannabis
Subject: Re: Drugs 'n' stuff
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 16:12:35 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Kelly T. Conlon wrote:
> For the last time; Human nature is perfectly capable of changing without
> resorting to cops, courts and jails. We have not yet attempted to
> criminalize the commercial distribution of tobacco, and virtually
> everyone in the Western Hemisphere rejects the notion of criminalizing
> alcohol. Yet, the consumption of both products has declined considerably
> as people come to learn about the risks and benefits of smoking and
> drinking.

It's a battle over definitions. Those in power get to make
the definitions. Anyone who attacks a Marlboro, Bud, or Coca-
Cola supplier is accused of terrorism.  Anyone who attacks a
"merchant of death" is honored as a DEA or Coast Guard official.
Hey, everyone needs a job.  As for starving civilians with
trade sanctions, hey, it's their own goddamn fault for being
born under an autocracy, and with elitist "liberals" cheering
on those trade sanctions.  People die everyday.  Politicians
and journalists only panic when it's one of their own.
---
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers
are punished. ....unless they kill in large numbers
and to the sound of trumpets. --Voltaire

From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.drugs,alt.politics.radical-left,rec.cannabis,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Drugs 'n' stuff
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:59:16 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

> On 29 Apr 1997 05:01:08 GMT, jwoodfor@unlgrad1.unl.edu (Jeffrey N
> Woodford) wrote:
> >It seems to me that legalizers view the world as a place which is full
> >of unspeakable pain, suffering, and death; and there is very little
> >that we can do that will substantially alleviate these problems.  All
> >we really can do is make life a bit more tolerable by letting people
> >express themselves freely.

The Drug War is just welfare for our law enforcement officers
to feel useful, despite not doing anything productive. If a
drug pusher hits you, fine, jail him.  If a drug pusher lies
or misrepresents himself, he's merely doing something that
lawyers, politicians, and the press have been doing for
centuries.
------
"A politician is someone who lies to the press,
 and believes what he reads the next day."

28.4.97 Moving in the opposite direction.
30.4.97 Free speech and communism.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.reform,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Force..... & property rights in communication media
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 17:17:59 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Derek Nalecki wrote:
> Free speech - you can say absolutely anything that does not directly
> harm another human being (like shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre, if
> I may appropriate that tired old cliche).
> Communism - a social, economical and political system based on collective
> ownership of all property, where the realtionship between members of the
> collective is not defined and/or demarkated, but interpreted by the
> collective "leadership".

You mean, like, um, a democracy?  Versus, what?  Like corporate
structure?  Versus corporate autocracy?  Versus corporate
monarchy?  I bet you don't even know WHY free speech has evolved
to become a part of human philosophy.  Free speech is as vital
to the evolution of the knowledge pool as mutation is to the
evolution of the gene pool.  For thousands of years, human gene
evolution has become useless, because the evolution of knowledge
has made it largely irrelevant.  Only cowards like you, afraid
of the truth, are holding back the advancement of human
civilization.
-----------
Shouting fire in a crowded theater is only dangerous if you've
raised a society of gullible panic-stricken idiots.

From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Force..... & property rights in communication media
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:06:01 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Derek Nalecki wrote:
> >The only path to freedom of speech is communism, and as long as
> I do not think there is anything that needs to be added to this.

Of course, that would depend on your definitions of free
speech and communism. If you think there's free speech in
this country, then you obviously think Ross Perot has as
much free speech as a poor man on Death Row.  If you think
this "democratic" country achieved democracy or even a
democratic republic, then obviously you believe people are
out there contributing to campaigns and hiring lobbyists
with no intention whatsoever of perverting votes. If you
think other "communist" countries achieved communism, then
obviously you think the working classes in those countries
actually have power over the ruling classes.
-------
Those who don't believe in the power of the press have obviously never
taken a trip down to Grover's Mill with Orson Welles. Rosebud.

From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Force..... & property rights in communication media
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:18:58 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

JMH wrote:
> I doesn't seem to me that the information generated by this
> private markets is being rarified by these ultra-capitalistic
> entities, i.e. the privately owned security exchanges. Also,
> these changes have not occurred due to some regulatory intervention
> to "level" the playing feilds. In short, these ultra-capitalists
> are doing the exact opposite from what you claim they should be
> doing.

Aren't they always?  Money can me buy a whole team of professional
liars like the CATO Institute.  Even the ACLU, run by wealthy
lawyers, an organization with a sham of a democracy, guided by
autocrats whenever real push comes to shove.  Sure, they trot out
their token minority spokespeople, like sacrificial lambs. Decades
from now, they will be honored as fools and remembered as nobodies.
The only path to freedom of speech is communism, and as long as
the rich have more say than the poor, then there is no excuse for
moving in the opposite direction.
------
Those who don't believe in the power of the press have obviously never
taken a trip down to Grover's Mill with Orson Welles. Rosebud.

24.4.97 After all that Cold War propaganda.
9.5.97 13:40 Before you can define thuggery.
9.5.97 14:01 Why people argue.
12.5.97 The only angels.
13.5.97 17:15 Idiots who have confused self-pride with self-worth.
14.5.97 14:59 They won't burn in hell.
14.5.97 15:18 Used by tin men to control their lions.
15.5.97 14:50 The Leader of the Free World could go completely bonkers.
15.5.97 15:03 Pavlov's dogs are poor.
16.5.97 17:37 If there's self-censorship in the press.
16.5.97 18:01 The downfall of Sodom.
20.5.97 15:54 A contradiction in terms.
20.5.97 16:08 Leave objects where they are.
7.6.97 Quite easy to claim their goal.
13.6.97 Who is the parasite?

From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:45:47 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Gene Johannsen wrote:
>         Oh, and if you threaten someone's life, I hope you get arrested
>         and rot in jail.
>         The real answer is: When both parties agree to it.  If someone
>         wants to give me a meal for three of my toe-nail clippings, I'd
>         probably say yes.  Who am I to decide how valuable my toe-nail
>         clippings are to them.

Ah, an AGREEMENT!  Now you finally understand the difference between
democracy and autocracy.  If there weren't guns and handcuffs to
dictate property, there wouldn't be property.  Face it, we both know
you care nothing about agreement or disagreement.  You just want the
"right" to run your own little monarchy (or you've been hired as the
official AssKisser du Jour).
---------
Property grows out of the barrel of a gun.

From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:38:34 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Gene Johannsen wrote:
> 2) Redefining capitalists as parasites is also a laugh.  Parasites live
> at another's expense.  If someone takes maney from me without just
> compensation, by law (as in a socialist society, let's say) or not,
> they are parasites, living at my expense.
> The only problem I see is that it would be hard to find a parasite in
> the animal kingdom that also preys on it's own kind.

Imagine this: I take food from a farmer in exchange for letting
him live. Who is the parasite?  I take food from a farmer in
exchange for the emperor's new clothes. Who is the parasite? I
take food from a farmer in exchange for fool's gold. Who is the
parasite?  I take food from a farmer in exchange for real gold.
Who is the parasite?  I take food from a farmer in exchange for
green slips of paper. Who is the parasite?  At what point does
a fake representation of wealth become a real representation of
wealth?  The answer is: when both sides have been brainwashed.
----------
Immigration (TM) is a boogeyman invented by slave masters to draw
attention away from their autocracy. Limited Resources (TM) is a
religion invented by financiers who think patent law is more
productive than marine farming.

From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 15:40:08 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

James A. Donald wrote:
> > * You CHOOSE to pay mortgage interest because you had the option
> > of paying rent instead; you CHOOSE to pay rent because you had
> > the option of paying mortgage interest instead.
> And under socialism someone else will build houses for us?
> Yeah, right.

Typical of a dog well trained by TV marketing to drool after
whatever image is put in front of his face every night. The
only people who actually need housing are those who don't
have it and actually want it. If the goal of a construction
company is to rake in currency, then it will rake in currency
as the expense of building homes.  It is quite easy for autocrats
to CLAIM their goal is to build homes, and then forget all about
it a day later, and fire subordinates who actually WANT to achieve
the stated goal.  THAT is why consumer and employee democracy
ensure the company is always on track.
-----------
Shift would always say, "Now, Puzzle, I understand what needs to be
done better than you. You know you're not clever Puzzle." And Puzzle
always said, "No, Shift. It's quite true. I'm not clever." Then he
would sigh and do whatever Shift had said.

From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:08:31 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Derek Nalecki wrote:
> >Why not just own whatever little portion of land you're
> >currently standing on?  A mini-sphere of influence if
> What if you want to move. Or is it like all socialist arrangments, a
> cell in a jailhouse.
> >you will.  Of course, this would only work under
> >cooperative socialism.
> Iiiii knew it. Been there, done that (Poland 1957-1977).

What part of "currently" don't you understand?  Does "currently"
mean one point in time, or the CURRENT point in time?  Christ
almighty. Objects simply exist.  Either everyone convinces
each other to leave objects where they are, or the word comes
"down from above" to leave objects where they are. There's no
such thing as cooperation if brainwashing is only one-directional.
------
The two sides of mass communication: credible and gullible.

From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.socialism,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:54:50 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Paul D. Lanier wrote:
> Well, hmmm.  Stern didn't do the Livertarian cause much good with that
> joke.  Thanks for telling me the last time you saw a Libertarian.
> I am _ not_ presently aligned with the Libs. myself, but it is fairly
> frightening how little people seem to be informed about political parties
> in the US, except for the Republican and Democratic Parties.

The Libertarian Party is a contradiction in terms. They claim
to believe in Freedom (TM) and are enslaved by their own ideals.
They claim to believe in some sort of limited anarchy, but cannot
throw off the shackles of their own platform.  A bunch of loser
joiners who seek nothing but self-affirmation in a support group
of loser joiners.
--------
Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.

From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 18:01:46 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

> > You mean that the local news personalities are responsible for the
> > downfall of Sodom?

Almost. Media God sees complacency. Media God sees laziness.
Media God reports it to apathetic sheep. Over and over.
Until He ignites their ire.  And the sheep take up arms and
destroy Sodom. History is a battle for circulation, and the
most entertaining target HAS to be another human being,
whether rich, poor, black, white, male, female, it matters
not. So long as it makes the listener feel superior enough
to go slit some throats.
------
Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.

From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:37:17 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Paul D. Lanier wrote:
> > > So, why am I to be convinced that Socialism would be any different here, than
> > > in North Korea??   Particularly in the long run?
> > Depends on your definition of socialism. If it means no one
> > is starving, then that's what welfare is. If it means democratic
> > control of the means of communication, then neither country has
> But at the back of this: what's the purpose?  What's your point?

The point is that there's NO democratic society without a
democratic press. Democracy must start somewhere. If it
doesn't start with communication, then we can never be
guaranteed that it is achieved. If there's self-censorship
in the press, we'll never know there's self-censorship in
the press.
--------
Conquer fear. Question faith. Humor distraction.
Thou shalt not make any graven image,
or bow down before any creation in heaven or on earth.

From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:03:11 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

James Doemer wrote:
> > And what about  those who do work hard, who have 2 jobs each, each
> > parent working,  with no time for their kids or really that much of
> > anything, and the best they do is maybe lower middle class or working
> > class?
> I found no shame in being lower middle or working class when I was there, are
> you saying that your socialism would make everyone rich then??  No one would
> have to work??  Or, which would be more believable, that your socialism would
> put everyone in the position of lower middle/working class, and it would demand
> an increasing amount of people's time/effort as the decades rolled passed.

Pavlov's dogs are poor. Whether they are media moguls in search
of power, politicians in search of pride, or peons in search of
wealth and sex. It's not so much GETTING what you want, but the
HOPE of getting what you want that keeps people going. A cold
peace results when everyone instantly becomes satisfied with
what they have. A warm peace results when everyone is satisfied,
but finds hope that there is more for everyone... somewhere.
But of course, We the Peons will forever be smacking eachother
for wealth, pride, sex, influence, ratings, whatever.
-------
Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.

From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:50:00 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Guru George wrote:
> >I was recently reading an article about how the CEO of Disney
> >employs people in Haiti for 12 cents an hour, while *he* has
> >an income of $9,000.00 per hour.  Now I suppose a true believer
> >in capitalism will explain that by saying there is a ratio of
> >72,000 to 1 in his level of ambition, intelligence, creativity,
> >etc., compared to an individual of the poorer group.  I think
> >a better explanation would be one that has the phrase "bitter,
> >ruthless exploitation" in it.
> No, it means that Disney's owners estimate that there is a ratio of
> 72,000 to 1 in the value of the work he does for Disney compared with
> the value of what one of those people in Haiti does for Disney.

Sheer stupidity on the part of the CEO for being lured by such
a salary in the first place. Or even lured by the prestige of
running Disney. He is Pavlov's dog as much as the rest of his
employees.

> It means that Disney's owners estimate that if you gave one of those
> Haitian people the task of running Disney tomorrow, the company would
> probably fall apart in a few days.

Incorrect. You are assuming everyone will actually LISTEN to
a stupid CEO.  Fact is, the Leader of the Free World could
go completely bonkers, and nobody would listen to him unless
they were brainwashed into listening to him. It's the power
to brainwash that makes him valuable.

Pavlov's Laws of Mutual Brainwashing:
Repetition: The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.
Mutation: Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.
Skepticism: If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it?
Absorption: Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant.
Focus: Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.
-------
He'll sit here and he'll say, "Do this!  Do that!"  And nothing will happen.
- Harry S. Truman, on presidential power

From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:18:16 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

John Bicketts wrote:
> Also, I think there should be a right to food and shelter- not to a
> mansion and caviar or nothing, just a right not to starve.
>   And I right to equal education-  absolutely necesary. That don't
> mean your forced to go to public education, just that you can if you
> want.
> And how about a right to vital medical care?

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life comes from food,
shelter, and medical care. Liberty will come after we abolish
contempt of court and subpoena laws, as well as regulations against
insubordination. The pursuit of happiness will be regained when we
stop denying people the ability to brainwash each other. Laws are
but repetitive suggestions used by tin men to control their lions.
There is no free will in this country.
-------
Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.

From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:59:27 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Giovanni 8 wrote:
> So long as the strikers do not initiate force against people who
> work despite a union or wild-cat strike they should be able to
> come and go without any force being used at all.  If they aren't
> attacked, or blocked from entrance or egress, then there's not
> likely to be a problem.  And, if company detectives or guards
> do not initiate force or fraud, either, then there is none.

Fraud is perfectly OK. Fraud is what lawyers, politicians,
marketers, and the press make a living doing. Bodily force is
the ONLY force that cannot be initiated. Too bad "law
enforcement" has been brainwashed into doing all the force
initiation by their brainwashers who sit behind desks. Why
do they let this happen?  Autocratic self-censorship has
destroyed our individuality. In 3 words: History is bunk.
Police officers die everyday protecting inanimate objects
and lame ideals. They won't burn in hell when they die,
because they are burning at the bottom of the power pyramid
right now.
-------
War hath no fury like a non-combatant.
                -- C. Montague

From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:15:42 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Black Dragon wrote:
> > There's only one zoo where we can see unreasonable humans: the media.
> Nope . .there's also the Rush Limbaugh show and GOP TV. Lots of
> unreasonable nutcases there . .. and Nazis, too.

You don't count those as the media?  If fact, every attempt
at communication counts as the media.  Most of the people
who we ASSUME are "unreasonable" are simply idiots who have
confused self-pride with self-worth.
--------
If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it?

From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,sci.econ,can.politics,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:12:39 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Jeffery C McLean wrote:
> It's also Darwinism.. the strong survive...

Actually, strong SOCIETIES survive. Those that have given
up on punishment and gone on to do actually useful things...
like welfare and mutual brainwashing...ahem...I meant education.
Been happening for ages mate.  Sodom wasn't really about sex.
It was about complacency. Any society that finally realizes the
difference between goal and reward tends to get lazy.  But it's
NOT destroyed by God.  It's destroyed by the media.  Either the
media destroys the complacency or it destroys the society
(ie. racism or nationalism).  THAT is why free speech must
be preserved. If at least to let the one last sane brainwasher
do the dirty work.  The only angels are the members of
the media that still have their heads screwed on straight.
Too bad there's too much self-censorship within the media
to create more.
-------
There's only one zoo where we can see unreasonable humans: the media.

From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 14:01:30 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Victor Levis wrote:
> Democracy is perfectly legitimate as a means of decision-making........so
> long as the choice is between two morally acceptable alternatives. But
> democracy does not turn an immoral act into a moral one just because a
> bigger gang is calling for it.  This is the whole reason for introducing
> constitutions into democracy, to protect against abuse of power by the
> majority.  The task at hand is to make sure that the constitutions are
> well-thought out and sufficiently respectful of individual rights.

It would depend on your definition of democracy. Whether it's
50%, 60%, 75%, or 100%.  Surely the most BASIC rights should
be decided only by 100% democracy.  What we're talking about
is WHY people argue with eachother in the first place. It's
because conflicts resolved by education rather than violence
is more likely to result in the survival of both parties. Like
duh. Freedom of expression is the TOOL. Political / military
equality ensure rulers will listen.  Economic equality ensures
the ruled will be heard.
-------
There's only one zoo where we can see unreasonable humans: the media.

From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 13:40:35 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.

Victor Levis wrote:
> Of course, no one, including Ms. Mitchell, believes that hard-core
> communists make up 36% of the population.  Furthermore, I think a Civil
> Society would require stronger action on the part of the proponents of his
> kind of 'libertarion' before jail or banishment could be justified. SImply
> writing words as Mr. Lepore did wouldn't suffice in my books.  But I have no
> problem with jailing a person convicted by a jury of his peers of committing
> thuggery.

Of course, "peers" has to be defined before you can define
thuggery.  The only REAL peers are those who think almost
exactly like the suspect.  Of course, victims would scream
bloody murder, so they need protection as well. 6 peers of
the suspect. 6 peers of the victim. REAL debate. (Nonviolent
of course.) Challenge EVERY aspect of the laws themselves.
Not sweeping problems with the current justice system under
the rug. Nobody needs to know the identity of the jury. Heck,
with today's technology, the jury members themselves don't
even have to know eachother's identity. But at least make
the transcripts public.  Everybody else might even learn
something.
-----
Everybody wants to redirect the crosshairs.
Nobody thinks about putting down the gun.

From: John Bicketts sfeikema@mach3ww.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,can.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.theory,a,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Socialism
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:14:30 -0500

James Doemer wrote:
> feline wrote:
> > Curt Howland wrote:
> > > Mike Lepore wrote:
> > > > That is nonsense.  Socialism is simply people's recognition
> > > > that we can produce goods and services for the direct reason
> > > > that we choose to have goods and services, rather than
> > > > produce goods and services for the purpose of having someone
> > > > take advantage of others financially.
> > > Nope. That's "communism".
> > > Socialism is state control of the means of production
> > > and distribution.
> > > The reason that Socialism is often violent is because
> > > it is FORCED control.
> > Socialism is only "forced" in the sense that it manifests itself
> > democratically.
> Force by a mob is no better than force by an individual, at least with an
> employer I have other choices, I can work for a less tyranical employer, or
> start my own business.
> > One of Curt's many problems is that he entirely rejects
> > any notion of democracy and sees the application of economic tyranny (or
> > force) as the only legitimate means of government. That is the tyranny
> > of the employer over the employee a relation which he always
> > conveniently forgets to mention.
> Hey, if you can come up with a system that negates both the tyranny of the mob,
> and the tyranny of an employer, I would be more than happy to listen to it.  In
> the meantime, I choose the employer, people generally have more choices under the
> employer, and the employer can only fire you for non-production.  The mob tends to
> hire gunmen and jailers for those who step out of line.

The assertion that democracy= mob rule is an old and rather silly attack
on it made by numerous fascists, monarchists, and (in this case)
crypto-fascists.  Their usual solution is to give rule to those who
'have the competence to rule'- never mind that these people usually
explot their position for their own gain.
 It's kind of funny, after all that Cold War propaganda, to find the
socialists defending democracy and the capitalists attacking it, on this
thread. In fact it's downright hilarious.
 Though not surprising, at all...

- John Bicketts

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