MANIPULATE
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21.2.97 Voting for crime. 22.2.97 Poor Charles Darwin. 24.2.97 23:38 Divide and conquer. 24.2.97 23:46 Backstabbing coworkers. 26.2.97 19:46 The evolution of human society. 26.2.97 19:57 Compete or die. 27.2.97 13:58 Focusing on technological problems. 27.2.97 22:50 Functional social structure. 28.2.97 16:47 Icecubes in Arizona. 28.2.97 16:53 A real civilization. 2.3.97 15:15 Who the losers are. 2.3.97 15:31 Right up there with cannibalism. 4.3.97 17:10 Wasting time on debate. 4.3.97 19:22 Replacing violent coercion. 4.3.97 19:35 Drive you into the ground. 6.3.97 16:46 Beat the curve. 6.3.97 17:05 Keeping out people. 6.3.97 23:10 The last thing you've read. 10.3.97 15:13 Anything but underlings. 10.3.97 15:32 Hell of a fireworks show. 10.3.97 17:17 A regular Tower of Babel. 11.3.97 The need to feel superior. 12.3.97 What makes us rich. 15.3.97 Right and wrong. 16.3.97 Lack of democracy. 17.3.97 00:36 Individual evolution. 17.3.97 00:56 Genes and philosophies. 19.3.97 17:24 Native self-hatred. 19.3.97 20:00 Liberals and conservatives. 20.3.97 If you were really intelligent. 21.3.97 05:06 Cranial capacity. 21.3.97 15:44 Even if they already know how. 23.3.97 19:21 Long-dead SAT words. 23.3.97 19:32 The goddamned tribe. 24.3.97 Those who have the most to lose. 25.3.97 Political entrechment has been replaced. 27.3.97 They fell for all our capitalist marketing. 28.3.97 Division into companies. 29.3.97 The lamest misinterpretation of Darwinism. 1.4.97 Even if capitalism dies. 2.4.97 That'll make a great economic thesis topic. 10.4.97 Traditional communism is really that unpopular. 11.4.97 Just don't get the joke. 13.4.97 16:45 Work instead of parasiting. 13.4.97 16:53 Patent lawyers and marketers will complain. 13.4.97 17:20 Employees without new ideas. From: "J. Hancock" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:41:03 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. R. Fontana wrote: > As unemployment drops and the labor market tightens up, sooner or later > inflation will rise. Along with the general increase in prices will be > an increase in the price of borrowing money, i.e., interest rates will > rise whether Greenspan acts or not. Um, hello, doofus-brain. If inflation happens because people have more and more money available to spend, why would they need to borrow money? Inflation and taxes are jokes. Nothing but rosebuds and red herrings. What really matters is how that money is spent. Whether it's on something productive like a healthier and better educated workforce, or on something useless like a new stadium and souvenir coffee mugs.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.economics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton,misc.taxes Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:20:02 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. GB wrote: > CEOs get paid more than you and I mostly because of supply and demand. > There aren't very many people that can do their job. I'm lucky enough > to get to meet with these folks from time to time. Each person is an > individual, but there seems to be a definite difference between them and > regular schmos like me. I don't think I'll ever make near the money > they make, but it's not right to turn that into class envy. And of course, you are a schmo for simply believing that. Sure it's supply&demand. The rich are the supply and the rich are the demand. Yeah, we have such a short supply of kings too. You are a coward and a slave. If this country were a true democratic republic, managers would be elected by their inferiors, and salaries would be determined in the same way. Of course, economic autocrats never actually believe their employees have any new ideas, so they fire the ones who disagree, and hire ones with old ideas. Voila. Employees without new ideas. --------- I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:53:50 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Freedom wrote: > If you keep taking money out of people's pockets - and redistributing it > - 40% of that redistributed money is irretrievably gone. Nobody will > argue that Joe is better off if you give him Bob's $100.00. But everybody > forgets about what happened to Bob. Bob now has less money to spend in > other ways - and less money to pump back into the real economy. Yes Bill > can spend Bobs money - in all sorts of ways - but the multiplyer effect > is reduced signifiagantly because it costs a dollar to redistribute a > dollar. Bits of paper floating around in the capitalist ether has no effect on real wealth. Real wealth is a healthy and educated labor force. Real wealth is access to new resources produced by research and manufacturing. Capitalism only wastes paper wealth creating lies and hiding secrets, when that money could've been spent on real constructive effort instead. Of course, under capitalism, all the patent lawyers and marketers will complain... wouldn't want to lose their jobs.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:45:47 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > gclough@rt66.com (Gerry Clough) wrote: > >>>Here's an education. Welfare is on it's way out, deal with it. > >>I hope you're right. Just one question: what are those people going > >>to do for food and shelter? > >Work instead of parasiting for a change. Work doing what? Lame busy work created by doofus-headed bureaucrats. The fact is, technology creates a surplus of people. Either you support those people and keep giving them an education until they actually become useful enough to do REAL work, or you can waste everybody's time and money on paperwork and inefficient bureaucracy. Capitalists, of course, are afraid of education, afraid of the spread of knowledge. Which is why they hide behind trade secrets, patents, and copyrights.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:43:36 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Tim Gorman wrote: > I suppose you think this is a smart comeback, eh? All it really does > is show that you know little about the start of this nation or are > unable to apply what you do know. This is exactly what our forefathers > did in 1776 to England, where the majority thought our forefather's > ideas were too wacko. Do you think our Forefathers (TM) would be satisfied with the amount of democracy this country has now? How many jobs are determined by appointment instead of election? How many employees elect their own managers? Is that not what a democratic republic is? How much freedom of speech is there in this country when only the rich can afford to pay for campaign commercials? Do you REALLY think that Ross Perot is a conservative kook? Wrong! You just don't get the joke. He is really a liberal, trying to make the point that there is NO real freedom of speech in this country. But nobody got the joke. So he had to be satisfied with splitting the conservative vote and getting a moderate conservative elected. ----- Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one. - C. Salzenberg
From: "C. Kane" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:55:14 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > hartle39@mail.idt.net (Jonathan Hartley) purported: > >Damn straight. That's why I vote we capitalist Americans take up arms > >to thwart this slow-motion revolution that is occuring in our country. > >It is my contention that government of the people, by the people, and > >for the people, has been overthrown in America, by a bunch of low-life > >scoundrels who don't even have the guts to admit they are communists. Only problem is, just about everything points toward communism. You can't achieve democracy if the rich are able to buy their way into power. You don't have real freedom of speech unless every poor man can be heard as much and as often as every rich man. Every major religion teaches altruism. Even "family values" teaches communism in the home - from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The only difference between real communism and traditional communism is the amount of democracy. Real communism has real democracy. But if you think traditional communism is really that unpopular here in America, then you better take a second look at that shiny happy company you work for: shared resources, top-down chain of command.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:46:38 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Tony Veca wrote: > >Civilization was NOT founded on competition. It was founded > >on COOPERATION. Racists, autocrats, and capitalists have > >all been fooled by the lamest misinterpretation of Darwinism. > Then why doesn't history support your claims? If you take a real > critical look at history from ancient Sumer to today you will find > that most civilizations started with a group of bully boys figuring > out that it was easier to take by force than to do it by themselves > then after a time, the people they had been using force on used equal > or greater force and deposed the current rulling group. True. But these competitive forms of government were doomed to inefficiency. If not peasants sabotaging what they produced out of spite, then companies refusing to work together like racists who refuse to work together. The ONLY cooperative form of government or company is one of democratic socialism. I guess you STILL think that trade secrets produce efficiency, SOMEHOW. Sure, that'll make a great economics thesis topic. ------ I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 13:54:13 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. omicron@star.brisnet.org.au wrote: > Racism is fear and everything fuels fear. Competition fuels fear. Whether it's competition for political power in an autocracy or competition for economic power under capitalism. Cooperation eliminates fear. Because, hello, the point of human civilization is to work together. Even if capitalism dies, it doesn't necessarily have to mean that the wealthy are reduced to poverty. It could just mean that society moves forward as a whole, instead of one class at a time. How does this happen? The production and communication of knowledge. -------- I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:25:13 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. David G. Hughey wrote: > While pettiness and selfishness exist under a capitalistic system, these > are human traits that exist under other economic systems as well. Yes. It exists also under autocracy. > Why should students help teach their peers, other than from a sense of > wanting to help a friend? Sure it's competition. > I'm not sure what division into companies means exactly, except to note > that such division is the very essence of efficiency. Competition is inherently inefficient. Both sides would sooner give the other guy FALSE information, than tell them the truth. So what happens? Each side wastes time reinventing the wheel, instead of inventing something to put on top of the wheel. Why do coworkers refuse to help eachother? Idiot competition for raises and promotions. Not only do they hold their coworkers back, they also hold their entire company back. Civilization was NOT founded on competition. It was founded on COOPERATION. Racists, autocrats, and capitalists have all been fooled by the lamest misinterpretation of Darwinism.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:02:28 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James Doemer wrote: > > Then what? Then they fell for all > > our capitalist marketing, fooled into thinking it's capitalism > > that makes us great, instead of democracy. > Actually, what they fell for was a complete collapse of their > economic system, corruption that makes the US politicians look > like saints, and a devaluation of their currency to an extreme. Yes, corruption because they didn't have democracy. There was no way to vote their corrupt politicians out of office. And why do we have corruption in this country? For the same reason. Not ENOUGH democracy. It's perverted by campaign contributions and lobbyists. > > dealing. It keeps the poor just educated enough to work > > UNDER us, instead of WITH us. Why not WITH us? Because > > capitalism says: "If that guy is as smart as you, he'll > > steal half your business." > Never heard capitalism say that, would you cite that please? That's EXACTLY what capitalism says. Why do capitalist students refuse to teach their peers? Competition. Why are teachers afraid to REALLY teach their students? The don't want to lose their jobs. Why do petty managers hold back good employees? Same reason. Capitalist division into companies is no different than racist division. All of it leads to massive inefficiency, hatred, and violence. All of it obstructs the advancement of knowledge and civilization itself.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:16:56 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Tony Veca wrote: > >We support the folkson welfare because capitalism failed and > >created the welfare state, > What proof do you have that capitalism failed. Free-Enterprice > capitalism never promised to end poverty. Duh, look at Russia. Before the break-up of the Soviet Union, they actually lived a decent life. Not great, but at least they had peace and unity. Then what? Then they fell for all our capitalist marketing, fooled into thinking it's capitalism that makes us great, instead of democracy. So what did they do? Capitalism WITHOUT democracy. Complete stupidity. Capitalism without democracy is no more than feudalism... crime and corruption everywhere. The welfare state is an attempt by capitalists to prevent a Marxist revolution. It keeps the poor just happy enough that they don't feel like revolution... just crime and drug dealing. It keeps the poor just educated enough to work UNDER us, instead of WITH us. Why not WITH us? Because capitalism says: "If that guy is as smart as you, he'll steal half your business."
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:21:05 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Ron Schwarz wrote: > >our kids a thousand long-dead SAT words, instead of what's > >really useful. Why? We wouldn't want young kids or > >old people working now would we? Even if they want to. > >It'll just cause unemployment. All of capitalism is one > >big inefficient mess. > Unlike those Socialist Workers Paradises, eh? Why not move to a > utopian state like Cuba or China instead of putting up with us > lowbrows? NONE of them are what they claim to be. NONE have freedom of expression, if not government control of the media, then big business control of the media. NONE have economic equality, if not the rich staying rich, then the powerful getting rich. NONE have a true democracy... ever wonder how candidates in any of these countries are chosen? Who "elects" your primary candidates? The only difference between a "communist" autocracy capitalist "democracy" is that political entrenchment has been replaced by economic entrenchment.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:06:13 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Gordon Breault wrote: > > I hope you're right. Just one question: what are those people going > > to do for food and shelter? > Hopefully what the rest of us have to do: find a way to make themselves > valuable to an employer so they too can participate in this great system > we have. Or, find a way to provide a product or service of value to > someone else so that they can own their own business. An employer that takes a hefty cut of everything you produce. Why? Because he has everything he "owns" under armed guard. Because he'll use that cut you just gave him to buy more "property". So you quit and try to find another employer, right? Pshaw, right, everywhere you look, "private property" is owned by someone else. So what do you do? You attack all them damn spics for stealing all the jobs. You attack all them damn skirts for getting all the education. Who decides how many people to hire, how many people to educate? The people should. It is a democracy is it not? Instead, those who decide are those who have the most to lose by having an educated and skilled labor force... like any good capitalist, any smart student or skilled employee will just put you out of a job.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:32:02 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Tony Veca wrote: > >But what capitalists can't seem to get into their thick skulls is that if you > >use weapons to DENY someone access to what USED to be SHARED > >resources, > You have no idea what the Native American were like before the white man came do > you? Untill the white man came, and even after, the Native American tribes > warred among themselves over hunting grounds, even raid between tribes of the > same nation were a common occurance. Who the fuck cares WHAT "Native" Americans did? What was the land BEFORE they got here? Land was ALWAYS shared, until someone (beige, pink, brown, whatever) invented violence. And idiotic violence continues to hold back labor, knowledge, and civilization itself, because everyone is so intent on peer competition. The goddamned tribe is now the entire planet, because we actually have translators now that enable us to SHARE knowledge. Racists and capitalists will be fools forever.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:21:20 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James Doemer wrote: > > Capitalism is trade like I trade my wallet for my life, > > or my labor for a piece of bread, or my thought for a > > TV. Why don't I go farm my own land? Because it is > > held under armed guard. Because someone conquered it > > long ago and passed it down to his son. Land can only > > be "owned" by coercion. > You don't farm your own land because you choose to buy a PC instead > of an acre or two of land. Course, farming is hard work, something > you'd have to get used to. Most land is not inherited, it is worked > for, then purchased. Purchased from thieves, and then resold again and again. And so the landless and unemployed go hungry. They fight each other for whatever they can get their hands on. Of course, they don't dare challenge those with the most guns. We've got all our capitalist education backing up Manifest Destiny. Truth is, property just exists. What can be done to it depends on the laws that people vote for and how much education they got. So we teach our kids a thousand long-dead SAT words, instead of what's really useful. Why? We wouldn't want young kids or old people working now would we? Even if they want to. It'll just cause unemployment. All of capitalism is one big inefficient mess.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-left,aus.politics,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.socialism.trotsky,alt.politics.reform,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Socialist versus Capitalist] Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:44:35 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. David Nadle wrote: > You miss the point entirely. Let me state it again for you. If THE > SAME STUFF is obtained on land at much lower cost (in labor AND capital) > than from the sea, it MAKES NO SENSE to obtain it from the sea, under > capitalism OR communism, whether people are starving OR visiting > vomitoriums. True. It would make no sense growing any food IF NOBODY WAS STARVING. > You central thesis, the posting of which you never seem to tire from, is > that Third World hunger is somehow the result of capitalist food > production. No matter how many times you assert this, it won't carry > much weight unless you provide specific examples. Look at this: how many raw materials do we take from Third World nations? How many hours of their labor? How much of that do we return? A finished good that takes barely any amount of labor and a fraction of their raw materials. Do we teach them to make finished goods of their own? No. We don't even let them make it EVEN IF THEY ALREADY KNOW HOW. We say it's a patent violation, a copyright infringement. All for our own profit. Don't think this just happens in other countries. It happens right here in the good old U. S. of A. Being too afraid to fight the guy with the most guns, they fight each other for what's left.
From: zeppp@snowcrest.net (Zepp) Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 05:06:33 GMT Organization: SnowCrest Net On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:21:55 -0900, Lew Glendenning rlglende@alink.net wrote: >Zepp wrote: >> On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:21:19 -0900, Lew Glendenning rlglende@alink.net wrote: >> >Z. Beeblebrox wrote: >> >> Lew Glendenning wrote: >> >> > > )> The "morality" of nature states that whatever increases the >> >> > > )> chance of survival for every member of a society is "moral". >> >> > > )> This is why both gods and governments have outlawed murder. >> >> > > )> This is why human beings often feel the desire to help another >> >> > > )> who is suffering. Anyone who prevents peer cooperation by >> >> > > )> promoting hatred hurts society. Anyone who kills another, >> >> > > )> instead of both learning from and teaching him, hurts society. >> >> > > )> Anyone who hides knowledge for his own profit hurts society. >> >> > > Bullshit. A very good argument could be made that killing anyone with >> >> > > an IQ of 70 would enhance our species in a few hundred years. I don't >> >> > > find this moral, but according to your simpleminded little theory I >> >> > > guess you must find this moral, eh? >> >> > Killing everyone with an IQ less than 70 would indeed do something for >> >> > the average IQ of this generation, but this doesn't mean it will for the >> >> > next. >> >> It is nearly impossible to judge whether a 70 IQ is good or >> >> bad. >> >Given the continuous increase in brain-size in primate evolution, and >> >the strong association of "intelligence" (well, at least primate-style >> >intelligence) with brain-size, your statement is objectively false. >> Lew, you should read a bit before tossing terms like "objectively >> false" around. Cranial capacity of homo sapiens has actually >> decreased about 8% over the past 20,000 year, according to >> acheologists, and the cranial capacity of our extinct cousin >> neanderthal was a full 12% larger. This doesn't necessarily mean they >> were smarter--dolphins and whales have larger brains, too--but it >> knocks out your objective proof pretty thoroughly. >I am surprized about the 8%, if true. The Neanderthals I knew about. Well, they still only have one intact skull from australiopithecus, and about a dozen partials, so it's not a real big sample. But the intact was female (no pelvis, so I don't know how that was determined), and it ran 8% above the norm for present day females (1350CC now, if memory serves, and 1650 for males). The partials, I'm told support that. >However, I agree that I was wrong on that point. >> >> This is what mutation is all about. Evolution does >> >> not happen without change. >> >The above is incomprehensibly dim. >> It strikes me as the most obvious thing you could possibly say about >> evolution. What do you find dim about it? >Evolution is change. OK, I guess we agree on that. [grin] >> >> Is the sickle-cell anemia gene >> >> good or bad? How can you know that the mutation for a 70 IQ >> >> won't also make the "victim" less prone to some other malady? >> >There is certainly not a single gene controlling IQ. The sickle-cell >> >anemia example is the standard example of genes' having contradictory >> >effect, and how population genetics can sustain a gene which kills 1/4th >> >of the population every generation. >> I think you overestimate the persistance of human intelligence. It >> may well be that several genes are necessary for it to exist in an >> individual, but if any one of those genes is missing or altered, >> intelligence doesn't occur. >There is, however, evidence for a continuous increase in intelligence in >the primate lineage (Harry Harlow, Univ Wisc and his students), and it >is unlikely that any gene (except mutations producing major structural >changes and which will be eliminated rapidly) can reduce intelligence to >zero. That is, there is no exact equivalent to sickle cell anemia, >because we don't see that kind of death rate associated with brain >dysfunction. There's growing evidence that intelligence goes back a lot further than we thought. There's evidence of tool use 1.3 million years ago, according to an NPR report I heard last week. Intelligence is, in itself, a question-begging term. What is it? Is it cognition, alertness, memory, ability to symbolize, language, all of the above, and in what proportions? Is a kid with Down's Syndrome who never forgets a song he heard but cannot toilet train smarter or dumber than my dog, who can't sing but is toilet trained? Or is more intelligent--a self-made millionaire, or a poet? John Brunner once mentioned that if we ever developed artifical intelligence, we would fail to recognize it, having none of our own. I think he was being flippant, but we need to know what is being affected before we can determine which genes affect it. >The large size of our brain does, however, cause death at all ages, from >maternal deaths due to the size of the head in newborns though deaths >from circulatory problems. The brain uses 25% of resting metabolic >energy, etc. True. Just as our erect posture causes a host of back and foot problems. Nothing, it appears, is free. >> >> However, human beings have long since passed the point of >> >> individual evolution. >> >How would you prove this? Have the laws of physics, biology, evolution >> >been suspended while I wasn't looking? >> Civilization. We take care of our old, our sick, our infirm. >> Unfortunately, we also tend to kill off our best breeding stock in >> wars. No point in trying to renounce civilization, though: it goes >> back to our earliest ancestors. Only the size of the tribe has >> changed. >Fine, I agree we have evolution at higher levels in stratified systems. >But, like I said below, evolution doesn't stop at the lower levels. >Biological evolution doesn't cease just because we have social >evolution. Indeed, it may be stronger because we reduce the >"no-offspring" rate due to random factors, and increase the relative >reproductive fitness of factors such as physical beauty and verbal >intelligence. It is not an accident, for example, that Iceland and >Scandanavia have such beautiful women, on average. >> >> We don't just get better from one >> >> generation to the next. We get better simply by TEACHING >> >> and by LEARNING. Knowledge is the next stage of evolution. >> >> Any new knowledge improves all of us, ASSUMING that it is >> >> universally shared, instead of hidden away in trade secrets >> >> or copyrights. >> >Yes, we know that there are indeed levels and levels to complex systems, >> >and that evolution can occur independently on each level. >> >Lew >Lew ===================================================================== "No political theory is adequate unless it is applicable to children as well as to men and women" --Bertrand Russell Novus Ordo Seclorum Volpus de Marina =====================================================================
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:04:09 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Tony Veca wrote: > Excuse me but I am tired of the "we must pay for the sins of out father's" guilt > trip you keep trying to lay one everyone. The point is now moot, it has no > bearing on today. The best we can do today, is learn from the mistakes of the > past and not repeat them. Correct. You cannot be held responsible for the actions of either your ancestors or the actions of other members of your race, class, religion, whatever. But what capitalists can't seem to get into their thick skulls is that if you use weapons to DENY someone access to what USED to be SHARED resources, then you have taken away part of his right to make a living. What you have taken away, you MUST give back in the form of welfare... but if you were really intelligent, you'd give them an education too.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:00:10 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Billy Beck wrote: > The fundamental which is elemental to communism, Nazism, *and* > modern American "liberalism" and "conservatism" is the subjugation of > the individual to the *state*, no matter its avowed purpose. The real difference between a liberal and a conservative is between someone who is not in power and someone who is. Hitler was a liberal before he came into power, and became a conservative the minute he used his power to stay in power. In an ideal society, no one would have power over anyone else's life. Not a soldier, not a pickpocket, not an employer.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism (Re: Jefferson vs Hitler) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:24:09 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Brian Smith wrote: > objection raised here is not against any form of worship, but rather > against the EFFECT of Jews on Whites. > And what is that effect? Let's see. Jewish influence in the media > and government promulgates policies and views which are *destructive* > to Whites (race-mixing, egalitarianism, massive non-White immigration, > White self-hatred) or are biased in favor of Jews (Holocaust > promotion, 5.5 BILLION in aid to Israel). There's self-hatred everywhere bub. Asians giving their kids European first names to fit in. Africans using chemicals to straighten their hair. Jews changing their last names to sound less Jewish. Homosexuals in the closet. Ugly people getting plastic surgery. Fat people going on diets. Ignorant people going to school. How do you define white anyway? Are Italians white? Are Greeks white? Syrians? Iranians? Pakistani? Sri Lankans? Even the concept of a "native" is relative. The only place you can truly claim you are a native of is the exact spot on which you were born. Not 5 feet away. Primitive societies might have defined a "native area" as a circle around the spot you were born. The radius of this circle is determined by how far you were expected to travel during your lifetime. Today, transportation allows us to travel as far as we want, so you might say we're all "natives" of this planet... or at least natives of the places that are close to airports... at least for those who can afford plane tickets.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:56:26 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Aquino wrote: > He was evil because he killed innocent humans. > There's no way to prove this definition of his evil objectively. Wrong. Humans consider murder evil because it is (usually) evolutionarily beneficial to believe so. Those societies that believed in inter-personal violence wind up killing eachother off, thus taking both their genes out of the gene pool and their philosophies out of circulation.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:36:20 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Lew Glendenning wrote: > > However, human beings have long since passed the point of > > individual evolution. > How would you prove this? Have the laws of physics, biology, evolution > been suspended while I wasn't looking? More correctly, human beings have long since passed the point of HAVING TO RELY on individual evolution. Intellect has allowed each individual to improve himself without having to rely only on the genes of his parents. It is information that is now the main focus of our "evolution". Efforts to obstruct mass education or hide information behind trade secrets, national security secrets, patents, or copyrights all obstruct the advancement of civilization.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:32:02 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Roy Lemons wrote: > > Competition creates poverty. I think that capitalist society has proven > > it quite well; I suggest that you visit London, for example, and see how > > well the current policy - which decreases taxes and regulations - has > > created enormous number of poor people. Unemployment rates are low, > > economy thrives but people life in the streets. That“s capitalism to you. > You should take a trip to China or Russia if you think a capitalist > society is so bad. That is what happens without a democracy. Politicians will take as much of what you produce as managers and shareholders. It is also the lack of democracy that allows producers to take more than their fair share from consumers.
From: "Z. Beeblebrox" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism [Re: Jefferson vs Hitler] Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:39:56 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Aquino wrote: > ) Here's what is evidently beyond your crackbrained grasp, > )Cross: Hitler was *wrong*, no matter his "claim". There really are > )such conditions as "right" and "wrong". > I personally feel he was an evil man, but I won't claim that there's a > reason for my feelings other than my own upbringing. There's no > objective reason that Hitler was anything other than a man trying to > change history. He is evil because he held back the progress of human civilization. He didn't just waste our time fighting a war. He destroyed human lives. It is human lives that create new knowledge and spurs the advancement of civilization. Any effort wasted on destruction instead of construction, on competition instead of cooperation, holds back all of humanity (not to mention all intelligent life).
From: "J. Hancock" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:44:25 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mike wrote: > > > And there is tons of demand for food and medicine right now > > > all over the world. But why haven't capitalists provided > > > for any of it? Simple. No goddamn profit. So what happens? > > > The people in those countries grab weapons and duke it out > > > among themselves for what little is left. > Notice an interesting phenomenon, all these countries with starving > citizens with out medical care are from the so-called peoples' states. > Notice another interesting phenomenon, all the countries with citizens > that own color televisions, digitized stereos, car phones, and > Mcdonald's Big Macs are capitalist countries. Draw your own conclusions. You mistake cause for effect. It is BECAUSE of extreme poverty that forces these nations into communism, whether it's democratic or not. The CAUSE of this poverty is what makes us rich. We take their raw materials, we take the products of their labor that took hundreds of individuals to perform. In return, we give them back a portion of their raw materials in the form of finished goods, that took the labor of just a handful of individuals. And for this we charge them an arm and a leg. We could, of course, teach them how to make these finished goods for themselves. We could also give them all our trade secrets, patents, and copyrights. But of course, we don't want to do that or they might actually be able to make a BETTER product than we can make. Ain't capitalism great? The root of all famine, crime, and genocide.
From: "J. McCarthy" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,talk.politics.theory,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,talk.environment,alt.society.liberalism,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,talk.politics.guns,alt.philosophy.objectivism Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:51:01 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Marc H. Pinsonneault wrote: > Jefferson clearly thought that blacks were inferior to whites. > But he nonetheless believed that as people they deserved the same > universal rights. There is no comparison with Hitlers beliefs, or > his desire to exterminate an entire people. Lincoln, by the way, > held the same set of views. It is human nature to have the need to "feel superior", whether that superiority is justified or not. It is this need that makes athletes want to win, makes fans root for their team, makes you laugh at someone else's mistakes. In fact, the need to feel superior is at the very root of almost all humor. This need is fine if used constructively -- for example, the need to feel better than your current self helps drive exercise and education. However, this need can also be used destructively -- in competition, in warfare, hiding the knowledge you have learned just to see others suffer. And this is what holds back humanity.
From: "J. McCarthy" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.reform Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: Leftist & Right-wing Racism Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:17:24 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James A. Donald wrote: > > (if) civilizations formed voluntarily (instead of forced upon > > them my an army), people pooled their resources so that by > > cooperation, they could achieve the greated good for all > > members of society. > And who decides who gets what, who produces what, how it is to be > produced. In capitalism, it's whoever had the most weapons in the past and the most contribution money in the present. In a society based on cooperation, it's called a democracy. No, 51% is not as good as 100%, but it's sure a hell of a lot better than the richest 20%. What is truly vital to the functioning of any democracy is debate -- real freedom of expression. In a capitalist society, it's whoever has the most money that not only gets to engage in debate, but determines the subject of debate. So in order to promote division among the poor, they debate everything from O.J. Simpson, to gender differences, to the exact moment at which life begins (face it, even sperm is alive). The truly rich, like the truly poor, don't REALLY care about any of this useless shit. It just keeps everyone in between from debating what's really important. A regular Tower of Babel. ------- Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one. - C. Salzenberg
From: "J. McCarthy" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:32:17 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jeremy Dombroski wrote: > Organized space colonization will happen when there is enough demand by the > masses for it. Then the capitalist will eagerly jump forth with a product > to sell, to make that possible. And there is tons of demand for food and medicine right now all over the world. But why haven't capitalists provided for any of it? Simple. No goddamn profit. So what happens? The people in those countries grab weapons and duke it out among themselves for what little is left. That's fine & dandy for us capitalists. Hey, it ain't our problem... so long as they keep it to themselves - let them die. > Capitalism is a great incentive for people > to get educated. Capitalism is a great incentive for each person to educate HIMSELF and jealously hide that knowledge from all competitors. Humans established civilization so that, by cooperation, they could make a better life for everyone. Capitalists have completely forgotten the point of civilization, and are a species doomed to extinction. Baby, once everyone's got a nuke (and it WILL happen, there ain't no way to keep a good idea down), if this world is still based on competition, you can bet we'll have one hell of a fireworks show.
From: "J. McCarthy" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism. Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:13:16 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jeremy Dombroski wrote: > > The loser is all of civilization. Rich idiots think they're > > actually benefiting themselves when they deny the poor an > > education. Instead, they wind up with murder, with warfare, > > with disease, with an entire planet suffering from lack of > > knowledge doomed to fall victim to lack of resources. Either > > teach the poor to learn to make better use of untapped resources > > or spend more on a police state to keep down armed revolt. > Nope, even the so called "loser" in a capitalist society benifits greatly. > Who do you think buys the stuff from the "winners"? Things like cable TV, > cars, computers, etc., would be luxuries had it not been for capitalism. Wrong again. They would be luxuries had it not been for democracy. Or rather, FEAR of real democracy -- that forces those who have taken all they can from their consumers and employees to give some of it back to the community. It's democracy that protects the worker and protects the consumer. Capitalism only protects the capitalist through campaign contributions and lobby groups. Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich. > materials, technology does that. But no economic system to date fuels > technological growth as well as capitalism. This is the economic system that hides knowledge, that hides technology, that refuses to educate the poor to be anything but underlings. Trade secrets, "national security" secrets, patents, copyrights. All products of capitalism that prevents the spread of knowledge, because capitalists are scared to death of competition. Only in a capitalist society is education undesirable, because that might just lead to someone putting you out of business.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 23:10:38 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mike Wooding wrote: > > Again, the point is no faith in ANYTHING. If you take > > anything at all based on faith, instead of debating > > every point, then you will never be able to improve on > > any ideas. > Is it an article of faith that by not having faith in > anything you will be able to improve ideas? It certainly > seems the case that Mr. cyu@geocities.com has plenty of > room for imprevement. ;-> The point is, you cannot truly claim you are a Christian unless have seriously studied the arguments of at least a few of your opponents, from atheists to Hinduism. And similarly, if you claim to be a Randist or Marxist without having ever debated your opposition, then the only thing you can claim is being gullible enough to believe whatever was the last thing you've read. This is what makes debate (and freedom of expression) essential to the functioning of any democracy. But what we have instead in our "democracy" is not real debate. It's only debate between one rich man and another rich man over the finer points of killing buffalo in Montana, because they have the money, and damn it, if they want to talk about budgets, then they're sure as hell going to talk about budgets.
From: "J. McCarthy" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: Leftist & Right-wing Racism Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 17:05:05 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James A. Donald wrote: > > It is by engaging in interpersonal competition that murders > > are committed, that wars are started. Capitalists completely > > forget the entire point of civilization: that cooperation > > better enables each member of that society to compete against > > the problems of NATURE. Capitalism holds back evolution by > > hiding knowledge jealously, for fear of competition. > Let us take a look at what national borders have barbed wire > emplacements, minefields, and artillery, and what national borders > have nothing other than a marker, and not too many markers. > Yes, your wonderful peaceloving socialists are the ones with the > militarized borders. You mean the ones without democracy. The ones where people don't own the government, but the government owns them. Now take a look at which countries need fences and border patrols to keep OUT people. Here. Not because of capitalism, but because of democracy has created a society with more equality than their own, because this country offers even the poor a chance (slight, but it's there) to survive and to learn. The solution isn't to refuse them education, and it's not to refuse them welfare. That will only cause more crime among those with the "gumption" to break a few immigration laws in the first place. The solution is to PROMOTE democracy in our neighbors. The solutions is to SHARE information with them, to teach them to be as productive as we are (or even more so), so they wouldn't NEED to try to come here and "steal our welfare". The big BUT, of course, is that we live under capitalism. If we teach them to be as productive as us, it will drive our own people out of work. THAT is the fatal flaw of competition - capitalism is not able to deal with the production of new information by sharing existing information.
From: "H.C. Anderson" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: Leftist & Right-wing Racism Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:46:45 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Guru George wrote: > >It is by engaging in interpersonal competition that murders > >are committed, that wars are started. Capitalists completely > >forget the entire point of civilization: that cooperation > >better enables each member of that society to compete against > >the problems of NATURE. Capitalism holds back evolution by > >hiding knowledge jealously, for fear of competition. > What is the knowledge that is hidden jealously? "Trade secrets", "national security" secrets, patents and copyrights. Why is it better for a student to keep all knowledge for himself, hoping the other ones learn nothing? To beat the curve, to come out on top. Sure, he might help a few of his closest friends get better grades, but if he actually helped the entire class get better grades, then he'd just be mediocre. Only a competitive society fears shared knowledge because of mediocrity, even if it raises the level of mediocrity.
From: "H.C. Anderson" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: Leftist & Right-wing Racism Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 19:35:46 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Chris Byler wrote: > >>> So instead of > >>>focusing on the technological problems they have to solve, > >>>these idiot capitalists engage in interpersonal competition. > How dare they try to provide better products than other people are > already providing! Idiotic interpersonal competition at its worst! And then after they produce the better product, they hide behind trade secrets and "national security" secrets, refusing to share their knowledge, because only in a capitalist society, will other people use what you've learned to drive your business (or country) into the ground, instead of using it to produce even more shared knowledge.
From: "H.C. Anderson" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: Leftist & Right-wing Racism Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 19:22:30 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James A. Donald wrote: > > Racism is only collective on a small scale - with respect > > to members of your own race. Much like capitalism is > > collective with respect to members of your own company. > My company has agreed to pay me, and I have agreed to work for pay. > Nothing collectivist about it. My race has done no such thing. > But I imagine that an apologist for tyranny like yourself, who can see > no difference between a free man who works for pay in America, and > slave of socialism who works in fear of violent punishment, can > similarly see no difference. No, not works in fear of violent punishment. Also not works in fear of starvation. But works with resources that actually belong to him, instead of resources stolen by violence. When (if) civilizations formed voluntarily (instead of forced upon them my an army), people pooled their resources so that by cooperation, they could achieve the greated good for all members of society. Capitalists have abandoned the violent coercion of yesteryear only to replace it with the economic coercion of today, taking control of both government and those pooled resources for their own benefit. And, of course, they haven't totally abandoned violent coercion either... the "enforcement of property rights" being one example...
From: "H.C. Anderson" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 17:10:35 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Communist wrote: > From Karl Marx's essay, ³On the Jewish Question,² (1844): > ³Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist... > Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look > for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis > of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion > of the Jew? Capitalism. What is his worldly God? Money... Hah, Marx was about as intelligent as Rand and St. Paul. A few good ideas here and there to convince enough mindless followers, and a whole lot of mistakes. The grandest mistakes in history come from blind devotion to any set of beliefs. Religion (including Capitalism and Marxism) are methods of controlling the masses without having to expend too many resources on additional education. Faith is used as the final argument in order to avoid wasting time on debate. But debate (and thus freedom of expression) is vital to the advancement of any society, if only to provide new ideas and to debunk useless ones, especially now when additional education is no longer so difficult to achieve. ------ Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism. Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:31:14 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mike Wooding wrote: > > unemployed? It is society that owes the inventor a debt, > > and the price is paid by society. When that inventor is > > gone, the continued wealth produced by his invention belongs > > to the rest of society. > But no theft has been shown. Theft happens when invading armies kill off the native population. Theft happens when the occupation forces continue to deny access to property it holds under armed guard. Theft happens when employees, who are denied access to raw materials, are forced to give their employers a cut of everything produced, just to be allowed the right to make a living. "And they better be DAMN grateful!" > > However, this is all a moot question because it is based on > > an economic system intent on competition and driving your > > neighbors into the ground. The entire goal of civilization > > was cooperation, helping your brother do something so that > > together you can achieve more than the sum of the parts. > > Capitalism has perverted the very point of civilization and > > is doomed to warfare, crime, and racism. > All economic systems are competitive. Why is murder against both the laws of God and government? Because murder is the ultimate form of competition (right up there with cannibalism). A society based on competition between peers is totally counterproductive to the survival of both parties. Capitalists have forgotten all that, hiding behind trade secrets, hiding knowledge instead of sharing it, mired in jealousy, fear, and hatred.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism. Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:15:19 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Parker wrote: > > The entire goal of civilization > >was cooperation, helping your brother do something so that > >together you can achieve more than the sum of the parts. > >Capitalism has perverted the very point of civilization and > >is doomed to warfare, crime, and racism. > Capitalism like any economic system produces winners and losers, > Luther. The winners are the people who benefit from it, the losers > are the ones who don't. The loser is all of civilization. Rich idiots think they're actually benefiting themselves when they deny the poor an education. Instead, they wind up with murder, with warfare, with disease, with an entire planet suffering from lack of knowledge doomed to fall victim to lack of resources. Either teach the poor to learn to make better use of untapped resources or spend more on a police state to keep down armed revolt. > The fact that the numbers of > socialist and communists in the US are very tiny. This is due entirely to welfare - a capitalist's version of communism that keeps the poor complacent, and also just uneducated enough so that he won't have to fear any new competition.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:53:31 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > There are people who think the > industrial revolution was bad. The industrial revolution is bad only to poor capitalists. Because they are the ones being replaced. Technology creates a surplus of people. But in a real civilization, people help people, and if not, then at least technology helps people. Only idiots like the unabomber think technology means an end to human existance - blaming knowledge for the errors of the "free" market.
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:47:06 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > > And efficiency means more profit. Oligopolies form also for > > more profit. Nations form alliances, like NATO or the EU, > > because they all see the value of cooperation. But since > > they can't be guaranteed of everyone's cooperation, they > > refuse to let other people in. The reason capitalists > > refuse to cooperate is simple - they were brought up with > > one ultimate lesson: compete or die in our dog-eat-dog world. > It also means lower prices. I can see your society, picture > this, abolish the printing press let's go back to writing > everything by hand. What would a book cost? Competition > lowers prices and raises pur living standards. Competition lowers prices the same way trickle down economics helps the poor - it's like taking an icecube out of your freezer and hoping that will help lower temperatures in Arizona. Nothing lowers prices like allowing consumers to vote on them directly. Nothing improves products like letting consumers decide they aren't willing to buy a private jet for the chairman, but would rather spend more on research. Competition only puts people out of work, force people to hide information, and make the rich unwilling to give the poor an education as good as the one their own kids are getting. Give up on your social Darwinist theories. Cooperation is what led to the formation of human civilization - not to compete with each other, but to compete against the forces of nature.
From: Antonio Iacovelli nmorena@mlink.net Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism = nonsense Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 22:50:10 -0500 Organization: Internet-Login M. Luther wrote: > However, we in the ruling class know how to divide and > conquer. We tell you that it's not us who are taking > a cut of what you earn, it's your government. We tell > you that it's not us who lay off workers, it's competition > from foreigners. It's that Hispanic that took your job, > that white woman who stole your college education. That is one of the most effective weopons of the ruling class to be used against an uprisal of the majority: the breeding of racist sentiment in society. Racism is a very functional social structure for the capitalists as it obstructs the path to the solidarity of those who are oppressed by them. ------------------------------------------------------------ | Antonio Iacovelli (YAK) | | mailto:nmorena@mlink | http://www.mlink.net/~nmorena | | "They say jump and you say, 'how high'" -Zack de la Rocha| ------------------------------------------------------------
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: Leftist & Right-wing Racism Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:58:18 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Giovanni 8 wrote: > Now that you mention it, none of my black libertarian friends > tend to hate black people. That's right. They hate poor people. > "Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. Racism is only collective on a small scale - with respect to members of your own race. Much like capitalism is collective with respect to members of your own company. But even a company isn't purely collective, because employees and managers are constantly battling for raises, good reviews, promotions, and power. So instead of focusing on the technological problems they have to solve, these idiot capitalists engage in interpersonal competition. Universal collectivism would mean an end to racism.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:57:21 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > > How about a pack of wolves? How about corporate mergers? How > > about a hive or ant hill? > I will ignore your reference to animals since I don't think it > applies here. Corporations merge for efficiency And efficiency means more profit. Oligopolies form also for more profit. Nations form alliances, like NATO or the EU, because they all see the value of cooperation. But since they can't be guaranteed of everyone's cooperation, they refuse to let other people in. The reason capitalists refuse to cooperate is simple - they were brought up with one ultimate lesson: compete or die in our dog-eat-dog world. > > Capitalists have fooled themselves for ages that competition > > is the only path to success. And yet they seek out new > > markets where there is no competition. Why do employees > > go work for a company, if not in the spirit of cooperation? > > And yet, after they get hired, like capitalist idiots, > > they start backstabbing their coworkers, each trying to > > nudge out the other in hopes of a promotion. Competition > > is inherently racist, you must take from someone to win, > > instead of helping eachother so you both win. > You have a very low opinion of workers, where's your solidarity. > Most employers I've worked for want there operations to be > harmonious, they didn't like tention in the work place. Employers definitely don't like tension in the work place, but employees themselves feel they have to compete both with eachother and with their employer, to "get ahead". This is completely counterproductive - much like our competition-based education system. Capitalists insist on giving their own kids a better education because deep down, they know the evils of capitalism: if you help your fellow student learn and get a better grade, he'll just steal your job.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:46:31 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mike Wooding wrote: > > Capitalists have fooled themselves for ages that competition > > is the only path to success. And yet they seek out new > > markets where there is no competition. Why do employees > > go work for a company, if not in the spirit of cooperation? > > And yet, after they get hired, like capitalist idiots, > > they start backstabbing their coworkers, each trying to > > nudge out the other in hopes of a promotion. > And socialists always seem to delude themselves that they'll > eliminate competition, when in fact, they only intend to shift > it from the realm of the market to the realm of politics. Competition won't be eliminated with force. It will be eliminated because people are actually willing to work together. Why will they do that? Because no one will worry about the essentials of life: the industrial revolution provides that. So instead of telling your kids to outstudy everyone else, for fear of future unemployment, you ask your kids to help other students learn, because knowledge is an end in itself, because knowledge is vital to the evolution of human society, because competition serves only to hide knowledge from others, and holds back progress.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:46:36 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > > Laughably misguided. Warfare, crime, and racism exist because > > people live in jealousy and inability to achieve the same > > success as their neighbors. So misguided by social Darwinism, > > both assume that competition is their only hope for survival. > > So they duke it out either in violent warfare or in economic > > capitalism. Poor Charles Darwin created a monster - emphasizing > > intra-species competition instead of competition against the > > forces of nature. > Nice try. A few examples would give us something to talk about. > But since there aren't any. How about a pack of wolves? How about corporate mergers? How about a hive or ant hill? Capitalists have fooled themselves for ages that competition is the only path to success. And yet they seek out new markets where there is no competition. Why do employees go work for a company, if not in the spirit of cooperation? And yet, after they get hired, like capitalist idiots, they start backstabbing their coworkers, each trying to nudge out the other in hopes of a promotion. Competition is inherently racist, you must take from someone to win, instead of helping eachother so you both win.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism = nonsense Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:38:06 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James Doemer wrote: > > Some people think that human beings are no longer capable of > > evolution because we are now able to keep even the disabled > > alive long enough to reproduce. They've completely missed the > > next stage of evolution: knowledge. Human civilization > > improves itself simply by learning and teaching. Capitalism > > uses that knowledge to fight political and economic battles > > instead of producing more knowledge. > Yet, some of the most technologically advanced nations are capitalist.. > Imagine that.. You mean democratic despite their capitalism. Rule by the majority has forced the rich to fund public education. Rule by the majority has force the rich to improve working conditions and raise wages. Actually, it's not rule by the majority, but FEAR of rule by the majority that forces the rich to do such things. Thus they can claim they are ruling on behalf of the poor. However, we in the ruling class know how to divide and conquer. We tell you that it's not us who are taking a cut of what you earn, it's your government. We tell you that it's not us who lay off workers, it's competition from foreigners. It's that Hispanic that took your job, that white woman who stole your college education.
From: "C. Darwin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism = nonsense Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:42:47 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > > However, this is all a moot question because it is based on > > an economic system intent on competition and driving your > > neighbors into the ground. The entire goal of civilization > > was cooperation, helping your brother do something so that > > together you can achieve more than the sum of the parts. > > Capitalism has perverted the very point of civilization and > > is doomed to warfare, crime, and racism. > If your statement is true then how come free markets (capitalism) > outproduce all other and provides the grreatest good for the > greatest number? Look closer and you will notice that the warfare, > crime and racism you speak of are prevalent in you socialist and > fascist people's paradises. Laughably misguided. Warfare, crime, and racism exist because people live in jealousy and inability to achieve the same success as their neighbors. So misguided by social Darwinism, both assume that competition is their only hope for survival. So they duke it out either in violent warfare or in economic capitalism. Poor Charles Darwin created a monster - emphasizing intra-species competition instead of competition against the forces of nature. Some people think that human beings are no longer capable of evolution because we are now able to keep even the disabled alive long enough to reproduce. They've completely missed the next stage of evolution: knowledge. Human civilization improves itself simply by learning and teaching. Capitalism uses that knowledge to fight political and economic battles instead of producing more knowledge.
From: "M. Luther" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,can.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,ca.politics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.brithish,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Capitalism fuels racism, Re: democratic socialism. Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:22:49 -0800 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Aaron Bilger wrote: > > >> >The system I advocate is the one we have now. Voters, through representative > > >> >government, are the ultimate owners of the property system. They can define it > > >> >any way they want, and distribute property any way they want. > > >> So 51% of the people can vote to take away the property of the other 49%. > > >Far better than 20% of the people voting to take away the property > > >of the other 80% in a society ruled by the rich. > > Anyone taking by force another's property is unethical and punishable, even if > > 'sanctioned' by a vote. I was debating someone who actually advocated such a > > system where people could vote away others' properties. Who or what you are > > trying to debate I do not know. And voters would only be more likely to resort to "crime" if pressed by poverty. While the rich 20% are secure behind their property rights and guarded walls, all you need is some wacko to convince the poor 51% that the other poor 29% are to blame for everyone's poverty, and those 51% aren't going to give a shit whether it's true or not, because they're sick of having to scrape for a living for both themselves and their families, so they'd just as soon take from whoever's weakest.

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