P A N D E R
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From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.society.labor-unions,alt.disasters.aviation,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,sci.econ,alt.activism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.president.clinton,soc.culture.usa,misc.survivalism,misc.taxes,alt.censorship,alt.journalism,alt.government.abuse,alt.politics.org.batf,alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.conspiracy.antichrist,alt.conspiracy.new-world-order Subject: Re: The FBI Bombed the WTC Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:46:49 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. kearney wrote: > From what I scanned threw I wonder if you have friends in the NSA who is > in charge of hiring and firing the US marshalls? > In case you have forgotten even Congressman Kennedy should have been > charged with murder if his pregnant girlfriend. Research > Chappaquitic(Spelling may be off). > And don't count on expresidents help if you remember JFK assasination > you would remember Ford was on the warren commision. There will come a time when today's FBI and CIA are spoken of in a tone similar to how Russians today speak of the KGB. The hostages have been released in Ye Olde Republic of Texas and yet they still think there is a problem. What IS the problem? The problem is pride. One side MUST lose, MUST go to jail, MUST die. Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant. Not that it's their fault for trying to keep themselves employed under capitalism.
28.4.97 The athiest's religion. From: "T. Hobbes" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Cooperation is not coercion, was Re: Nationalized Health Care Score Board Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 13:31:20 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Herman Rubin wrote: > >: Do you honestly believe that smoking has no health effects ? > >Do you honestly believe there's a single thing - food, activity, > >beverage, etc - that has no negative health effects? > An American adage: > Everything enjoyable is illegal, immoral, or fattening. > To which I add: > Disease producing or carcinogenic. "A new study has discovered that research causes cancer in rats." If you go looking for it, you'll find it. If Nutrasweet will up your chances of cancer from .00004% to .00008%, who the fuck cares? Well, I'll tell you who cares. Research scientists who need funding for to keep their projects going. NUTRASWEET DOUBLES CHANCES OF CANCER! Great headline eh? Makes sugar-growers happy. Go capitalism go! ----- Statistics is the science which says 99% of the population have an above average number of legs.
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Cooperation is not coercion, was Re: Nationalized Health Care Score Board Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:25:11 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Henry Blaskowski wrote: > Now, you can dance, sing, add bells and whistles, use smoke and mirrors, > and trot out all the dogs and ponies you want, but a program whose > central operating premises are "from each according to his ability, > to each according to his needs" is socialism. At least have the > intellectual honesty to admit it. And so what if it is? Communism is the atheist's religion, and religion is the theist's communism. Free markets aren't the goal. WELFARE is the goal. -------- To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions Subject: Re: about theory of value Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:14:42 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Felix Steiner wrote: > 11. All the modern textbooks of economics have dismissed the teaching of the > value theory, why? Could such editors who compile the textbooks of economics > understand the value theory of economics? > 12. There are no students, professors or economists have complained of such > textbooks of economics openly, why? Is there a secret and powerful > organization to control them? It's a matter of faith. Like the belief in God, or belief in the intrinsic value of yellow rocks. After all, to give that all up, means your economy no longer has anything to stand on. What studies would a communist economist base his research on? There aren't any. It's so much easier to use available information, written by capitalist economists. After all, they do all have PhDs right? Obviously that makes them smarter, and Their Word Shall Be Abided By All. ------ In a world lost in propaganda and censorship, the real truth is spoken only by liars and fools.
23.4.97 Human crash and die off. From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.environment,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Here is the real simple answer for an economist Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:34:39 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Robert Vienneau wrote: > > Further, note that one of these spam lists you keep posting > > was signed by about 2500 economists, including many of the leading > > lights in the field. As such, why don't you quit bothering sci.econ > > and go bug some field that hasn't been concerned with environmental > > scarcity for some 2000 years? > Economics has been a separate professional academic field for about > a century, a recognized subject for a little over two centuries, and a > separate social sphere that might be considered as an organizing > principle for society for maybe hal a millenium. Is there any discussion > of environmental scarcity among economists prior to Jevons? Astrology and alchemy were also once highly respected fields. Even gold and diamond mining were considered highly valuable industries at one point in civilization. As long as there's capitalism, people will always be inventing useless jobs for themselves to do. ----------- The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,sci.environment,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Here is the real simple answer for an economist Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:55:37 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jay Hanson wrote: > Here is the real simple answer for an economist: > "If the only thing that CAN stop economic growth is > human crash and die off, then economic growth WILL > be stopped by human crash and die off." > It is not a matter of preferences and prices, it is a > matter of life and death. It really pains me to see such brainless stupidity masquerading as knowledge. This planet can support so many billions SIMPLY because humans have LEARNED HOW. The only reason there is any starvation at all in this world is because idiots like you refuse to give away trade secrets and prevent others from making use of their knowledge, saying it's a patent violation. How much land is unfarmed because of "environmental protection" (also known as "future upper class generation protection")? And our oceans, which support so much more life than our land, just go fallow, because it's so much more profitable to go work on Wall Street instead of going into resource research. ------------ Folfanga. Fourth world of the Folfanga system. Estimated journey time, three weeks. There to meet with a small slug. Of the genus A-Rth-Urp- Hil-Ipdenu. I believe that you had decided to call it a brainless prat.
23.4.97 What projects benefit the nation as a whole? From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats.d Subject: Re: The Big Lie of Capital Gains Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:48:47 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Parker wrote: > No jacked up definitions, and not a faulty word in my post. Go lie > down Gavin, socialism aint gonna happen. Too late sucker. It's already happened. What do you think AFDC is? What do you think public education is? What do you think social security, medicare, and medicaid are? Now, it's just a matter of degree. More socialism or less socialism? More democracy or less democracy? More free speech or less free speech? More efficiency or less efficiency? The answer is all the same. Those who answer incorrectly will honored as fools and remembered as nobodies. ------- Freedom of speech was a concept invented by a woman, whether her male counterparts realized it or not. But it matters not whether the play was written by Shakespeare or Byron.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.socialism,alt.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: The Big Lie of Capital Gains Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:27:46 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Donald J. Lacombe wrote: > : If all the rich and their economic apologists used half the time they > : spend pissing and moaning about how unfair it is that they only end up > : with four or five times as much disposable income as the rest of us on > : projects that would benefit the nation as a whole, then the entire country > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > How do we determine what projects benefit the nation as a whole? Under capitalism, NOTHING benefits everyone as a whole. I invent a cure for the common cold and give out the formula for free. Everyone's happy right? Wrong. I've just single-handedly destroyed Sudafed, Contact, Nyquil, and countless other syptom relieving products. A better and cleaner source of energy puts existing energy companies out of business. A better mousetrap forces existing mousetrap makers into unemployment. An educated student threatens the job of some working employee. If you base an economy on competition, there will always be a loser.
24.4.97 Thinking for anyone else. 25.4.97 The great capitalization of religion. From: zeppp@snowcrest.net (Zepp) Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,sci.econ,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism Subject: Re: Damn that liberal media, anyway! Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:48:27 GMT Organization: SnowCrest Net On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:04:11 -0700, "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com wrote: >Zepp wrote: >> >Found at http://www.missouri.edu/~c432939/corporate-crime.html >> > John Swinton (considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), >> >Chief of Staff New York Times, when asked to give a toast at the New >> >York Press Club in 1953 had this to say: >> > "There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in >> > America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. >> > There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and >> >. if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. >> >. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am >> > connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar >> > things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest >> > opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I >> > allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, >> >. before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. >> > The business of the journalists is to destroy the >> > truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to >> > fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country >> > and his race for his daily bread. >> > You know it and I know it, and what folly is this >> > toasting an independent press? >> > We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the >> > scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the >> > strings and we dance. Our talents, our >> > possibilities and our lives are all the property of >> > other men. We are intellectual prostitutes." >> >************************** >> >So, any evidence that things have changed since then? >> We just read Swinton's remarks here. If they resonate, by the end of >> this week, 50 million people will have had the opportunity to read >> them. >The Internet is little more than the ravings of another David >Koresh. The Internet is the boy who cried wolf one too many >times. The Internet is a million paranoid Oliver Stones. People >believe what they hear on TV far more than anything on the >Internet. More Americans would sooner believe that Australian >for "salad" really IS a leaf on a steak. That's probably the case. But that's the way it's ALWAYS been. The internet just makes it easier to access the different ideas. That's the responsibility that comes with Usenet, and the rest of this gaudy, international toy. The reader has to try and determine what is true and what is false, what is factual and what is imaginary. In other words, the user must learn to think critically. In "Mother Night", was Nick Nolte really "The Last Free American?" >In a world lost in propaganda and censorship, >the real truth is spoken only by liars and fools. ===================================================================== From my parents it seems, I inherit The sexual urge of a ferret With each carnal session Artistic expression Is exceeded by technical merit. Novus Ordo Seclorum Volpus de Marina ===================================================================== When replying by e-mail, remove the third "P" placed there to foil spambots.
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,sci.econ,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism Subject: Re: Damn that liberal media, anyway! Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:52:09 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Ray Kanarr wrote: > > > The Internet is unedited... > > Edited by the simple fact that not everyone has access. > > Edited by the simple fact that not everyone has time to > > stare at a computer screen all day. > > Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one. - C. Salzenberg > And the Revolution, despite all rhetoric to the contrary, Likely _will_ be > televised. After all, think of the ratings. You know what they say: "Left on their own, all of the major networks would broadcast live executions. Except the Fox network, which would broadcast naked live executions." All part of the great capitalization of justice and politics. Quite like how the great capitalization of religion has created a great cottage industry around printing various translations of the Bible, making crucifixes, and worshiping tele-evangelists. -------- Some of you ... may have decided that, this year, you're going to celebrate it the old-fashioned way, with your family sitting around stringing cranberries and exchanging humble, handmade gifts, like on "The Waltons". Well, you can forget it. If everybody pulled that kind of subversive stunt, the economy would collapse overnight. The government would have to intervene: it would form a cabinet-level Department of Holiday Gift-Giving, which would spend billions and billions of tax dollars to buy Barbie dolls and electronic games, which it would drop on the populace from Air Force jets, killing and maiming thousands. So, for the good of the nation, you should go along with the Holiday Program. This means you should get a large sum of money and go to a mall. -- Dave Barry, "Christmas Shopping: A Survivor's Guide"
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,sci.econ,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism Subject: Re: Damn that liberal media, anyway! Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:51:58 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > On 24 Apr 1997 14:39:37 GMT, zarlenga@conan.ids.net (Michael Zarlenga) > wrote: > >: The Internet is little more than the ravings of another David > >: Koresh. The Internet is the boy who cried wolf one too many > >: times. > >So why should anyone believe what you've just posted here? > >Are you the only sane, trustworthy, rational person on the > >Internet? The only sane people in this world are safely locked up in mental institutions. But that's not the point. The POINT is that even a truly sane, trustworthy, and rational person can STILL be misinformed. The POINT is that NOBODY is right all of the time. The POINT is that "trust" is just another word for stupidity. If you can't think for yourself, don't even try thinking for anyone else.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Wealth Distribution & The Fairy Returns!! Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:05:13 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. > Scott Susin wrote: > > The best source is probably Edward Wolff, an NYU economist who > > used Survey of Consumer Finances data and found: > > -- Share of Top 1% -- > > Income Wealth > > 1983 13.4% 33.7% > > 1989 16.4% 38.9% > > This is from the Summer 1995 American Prospect, available at > > http://epn.org/prospect/22/22wolf.html What is wealth? What is money? Wealth is an illusion. Who decides how much gold is worth? Who decides how much land is worth? Who decides how much the Mona Lisa is worth? A "rich" man might rest comfortably knowing that his bank tells him a number with a lot of digits, but there's still no way he can get any food UNLESS farmers and distributors are actually willing to HELP him get food... to trade their own labor in exchange for paper. The higher Magellan goes up, the more investors invest. The more investors invest, the higher Magellan goes up. Might as well have named it Icarus. ------- Folfanga. Fourth world of the Folfanga system. Estimated journey time, three weeks. There to meet with a small slug. Of the genus A-Rth-Urp- Hil-Ipdenu. I believe that you had decided to call it a brainless prat.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left Subject: Re: Banks create money. Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:50:52 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Edward Flaherty wrote: > > It is difficult to understand how a democracy can continue to > > reward bankers and insurance salesmen at the expense of the actual > > producers. > Banking is also a valuable service. For most small firms and > individuals, financial intermediation is a much cheaper way to > borrow money than direct private placement. If it were not, > then we would expect to see people knocking door to door seeking > loans for a business, house, college, car, etc. Financial > intermediation reduces transaction costs and is therefore a > valuable service. In other words, banks are another way of implementing privatized welfare. The only difference is that the welfare "grant" has to be paid back at a later date, with interest. Where does this extra currency come from? From someone else's pockets. From someone else's bank. Either that, or you just get the government to print more currency. Issue more bonds. Bankers are the weavers of the emperor's new clothes. Under capitalism, hey, why not? We waste so much of our other resources on marketing and secrecy anyway. Just a drop in an ocean of inefficiency. -------- "Banks are a place that will lend you money, if you prove that you don't need it." - Bob Hope
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,or.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: PRISONS -- End the Violence Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:24:12 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Donald J Smith wrote: > > Prisons aren't cluttered up with folks who commit "non violent" crimes > > with victims, they are cluttered from folks who are incarcerated for > > victimless "crimes." > To: The Group...................OK, I'm a little surprised by all the > compassion shown by these groups for the poor babies who wind up in > prison. But I accept the fact that you're all good people. If it was illegal to hold a pencil in your left hand, then we'd have a heck of a lot of poor babies who wind up in prison who are left-handed. We could also make it illegal to go to Temple. We could make it illegal to take the Lord's name in vain. Jesus Fucking Christ. We could even make it illegal to accept money for performing sex. And, in fact, we do. We wouldn't want cops to get TOO bored now would we? Otherwise, we'd get to accuse them of hanging out too much in doughnut shops. We aren't paying our justice system to sit around all day. Get off your butts! Invent more things to make illegal! ------- Arthur Philip Deodat? You're a no-good dumbo nothing. I thought you should know that before you went.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,fidonet.politics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Canada Homeless Fight for Shelter... Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:54:10 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Christopher P. Reicher wrote: > Law Enforcement Protects Private Property Rights. > By the way, everybody else pays for their housing through something > called "work." Revolutionary concept, I know. An occupying army protects "property rights". You can own something either because everyone agrees that it is yours, or you can hire an armed guard to shoot anyone that says otherwise. At least it keeps the armed guards employed. > > Clarke said it's "obscene" that there > > are 258 empty buildings in Toronto while > > people freeze to death on the streets. " > > If the law says people have to die on > > the streets when buildings are sitting > > idle then I say that law must be defied," Of course, the reason these buildings are boarded up is because housing interests spend big money lobbying the local legislature and "researching" how "dangerous" these buildings are. Nobody likes competition, especially if it's free competition. -------------------- And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, one girl sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time... This is not her story.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.medicine,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Trial by Jury Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:00:59 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Chris Nelson wrote: > Perhaps what we need is such a fundamental change as elected, volunteer or > professional juries. Why not? Right now, juries are made up of the people > in society most ignorant of the facts of any case. Indeed, these jury > members are most often the most ignorant members of society, period! Precisely. How else can you possibly get 12 people to agree on anything? These have to be the 12 most gullible people you can find, or you'd get a hung jury every time. They have to be unable to debate. Unable to have any single thought of their own. If this country truly believed in freedom of expression, the jury would be made up of 6 people who side strongly with the victim and 6 who side strongly with the accused. THEN, we might get some REAL debate going on in our justice system. Of course, we can't have that. They might actually find out how completely STUPID the entire capitalist justice system is... just to keep lawyers, judges, and baliffs employed. ------- Arthur Philip Deodat? You're a no-good dumbo nothing. I thought you should know that before you went.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.politics.radical-left,comp.unix.advocacy,alt.society.labor-unions,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.ronald-reagan,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: The Job Market. (WAS:The Kinko's Office 97 Demo.) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:55:12 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Brock wrote: > >I have discovered that the young kids in my department were making a > >pitiful amount compared to my wages ( which wasn't real great either > >-- I checked with an old friend of mine who had worked in the same > >department a few years ago and had asked for 25% more than me and had > >got it, even though she had less education and experience than me when > >she started). The kids (almost all young men between 21 and 26) were > >putting in alot of extra work that I was not. I have a life. > Just curious. Would you be able to estimate the percentage of those > "young kids" who were foreign born? I am kind of amazed at the way the > computer industry has been able to get away with blowing off older > workers Most of the work being done by young and old is useless anyway. Will probably all get tossed in the next project review or the next marketing battle. Kids today graduate from top-notch schools with big-time degrees, but what did their school really teach them? Next to nothing. But we have to keep college professors employed. And we have to keep young folk out of the job market for as long as possible or it will raise unemployement for us older workers. But when they finally DO enter the job market, we have to invent useless jobs for them to do, just to keep them out of trouble. The problem with capitalism is that education is seen as a privilege instead of an obligation. Look, if somebody is unemployed, obviously his skills are not needed. Why not just PAY him to keep learning until he DOES become useful? Nah, too much knowledge is a bad thing for us patriotic capitalists. -------- Arthur Philip Deodat? You're a no-good dumbo nothing. I thought you should know that before you went.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.medicine,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Economic devastation led to WWI Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:08:46 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > The creation of health care and social security under Bismark > completely bankrupted the German economy and was a direct cause > of world war one. Economic devastation has a way of doing that. > War is the insane solution to umemployment. War is the only way you can get idiot capitalists to stop fighting with their consumers and employees, and redirect their anger at some other group of people instead. Redirect anger at poverty and ignorance? Nah. Not macho enough. What is "bankrupt" anyway? Either farmers are willing to trade you food for health care or they aren't. Either miners are willing to trade you ore for social security or they aren't. Mismanagement of paper wealth can indeed lead to "bankrupcy," but all it means is that you've misplaced the emperor's new clothes. ---------- "Arthur Phili ..." it said, then glanced sharply at him and down at his clipboard. He frowned. He looked up at him again. "I've done you before haven't I?" he said.
25.4.97 The rise of mutual funds. 26.4.97 Getting what they want. 28.4.97 15:09 Who is the kettle, who is the pot? 28.4.97 15:27 A die-hard capitalist. 6.5.97 A king defines it one way. 13.5.97 Losing their collective consciousness. 15.5.97 13:45 Do they know we're watching? 15.5.97 13:52 Finally determine what poverty is. 20.5.97 Who is defining success? 22.5.97 The power to control the necessities of life. 29.5.97 It is with this communication. 30.5.97 A pile of shit by any other name. 7.6.97 The only true differential. 10.6.97 The freedom to leave it. 11.6.97 15:30 Chasing after bells. 11.6.97 16:10 An acquired taste. 11.6.97 19:51 What kind of insight? 16.6.97 17:33 Intelligence is brainwashing. 16.6.97 18:24 Fight cola wars in our spare time. 16.6.97 20:33 Wolves that call themselves oranges. 17.6.97 What do you call it? 18.6.97 If only kings can write history. 19.6.97 20:15 Everybody gets what they want. 19.6.97 20:31 An anonymous voice from the past. 20.6.97 The most useful production. 23.6.97 Where a man dares to speak his mind. 24.6.97 Anything you do is an improvement. From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:36:42 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Derek Nalecki wrote: > Imagine a country where government has no political pull to be worth > buying, or power to be worth grabbing; where it simply governs the > maintenance of individual rights. > What do you call it? Capitalism And what individual rights would these be? First, life. Second, liberty. And third (if you are a follower of followers), property. Protecting one life by denying someone his liberty? THAT is why we jail killers. Do we kill prison guards to free the jailed? Or execute shoplifters and trespassers? That of course depends on where your priorities lie. When the protection of property denies others their lives or liberty, is when your society has reversed itself. We both know the Founding Fathers (TM) were hardly your type of capitalist. Only after Marx became popular did those who control communication panic and rush to the polar opposite: Competitive Darwinism, rather than Cooperative Darwinism. And we got two nice little World Wars and continuous racism because of it. ------------ Immigration (TM) is a boogeyman invented by slave masters to draw attention away from their autocracy. Limited Resources (TM) is a religion invented by financiers who think patent law is more productive than marine farming.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:11:42 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jennifer wrote: > Capitalism is the freedom of competition, and it is this competition that > has driven people to improve and invent for mostly monetary gain which has > thus driven our society. Lest we not forget that we reward those who are > inventive and take risks and have determination as opposed to socialist > countries where the rewards of these qualities are far less. Without these > rewards, there would be no improvement and everything would be at a > standstill. What kind of "incentive"? Some people work because they like what they do. Others work because they would otherwise have to face death or imprisonment. Which one is it in your country? Which type has more incentive? You assume you know what "luxury" is, or what "improvement" is. The fact is, the more your job needs marketing (brainwashing, communication, propaganda, whatever you want to call it) to perpetuate itself, the less claim you have that anything you do is at all an "improvement". Anything beyond keeping people alive is entertainment. The less your actions directly keep human beings alive, the less you can claim that your effort is worth more than another person's effort. --------- Pavlov's Laws of Mutual Brainwashing: Repetition: The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers. Mutation: Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line. Skepticism: If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it? Absorption: Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant. Focus: Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.socialism,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:57:55 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Kennedy wrote: > >Ownership is determined by control over communication. > So you believe saying things are so makes them so? > Individuals may express differernt opinions of reality, but there > is one reality for all, and it is against that reality that all > opinions must be measured. And which reality is that? If there was no such thing as communication, how would anybody know what is "owned" by whom? I pull out a deed. You pull out your own deed. Which one is fake? They are both fake. "Reality" is the sum of what others have told you and your own observations, minus what you have forgotten. You may have been told lies. You may have seen illusions. You can only "prove" that your memories haven't been artificially implanted by believing that such technology hasn't been invented yet. Reality is the place where a man dares to speak his mind. ---------- Those who don't believe in the power of the press have obviously never taken a trip down to Grover's Mill with Orson Welles. Rosebud.
From: breid@din.com (Bill Reid) Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: 20 Jun 1997 01:28:10 GMT Organization: OP In article 33A6072E.7ADC@geocities.com, "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com wrote: >Brandon Berg wrote: >> Ironically (or not), it is Socialists who generally produce the least for >> society and for themselves. Such people are not willing to work hard >> enough to succeed in a capitalist society, and then clamor for Socialism >> so that they may live off those who are willing to do so. In a Socialist >> system, a person must work much harder to succeed legitimately, and is >> caught in a vicious cycle -- the harder he works, the harder he must work >> to achieve the same effect >Here goes another dog biscuit assuming he has defined "production" >again. What is production? What is "useful" production? If a king >enslaves his peasants to build him a cathedral at the cost of >starving thousands, has this king been more productive? Or has >his builders been more productive? The answer, obviously, depends >on who gets to write the history. The most useful production appears to be purchasing stocks.
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.socialism,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:31:52 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Mikeo wrote: > Democratic capitalism is an oxymoron. Either excludes the other. In a > democracy, democratic votes determine what you have the right to do with > your property. In a capitalist system you determine what to do with your > property. That assumes that you can tell what is your property and what is not. "These shoes I'm wearing are mine," I say. "They're mine!" says my brother. "I paid for them," says my mother. "I made them," says my cobbler. "I stole them and gave them to the cobbler," says an anonymous voice from the past. Ownership is determined by control over communication. If 99% of the population say the shoes I'm wearing are not mine, then they could call me insane. ---------- If time is money, then bean counters waste their money keeping track of their time.
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,alt.politics.democrats.d,sci.econ,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:15:30 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Ketosis wrote: > Why are so many liberals so bitter towards the world? I find that a > big turn off. It's called Redirecting Anger (TM). There have always been people who are angry at something, or angry for no particular reason. Traditionally, peasants have been angry at kings. But because kings had control over communication, they were able to redirect that anger at some other scapegoat, usually a neighboring kingdom. So what usually happens? A nice little war. Everybody gets what they want. The angry get to go beat on someone. The passive learn to appreciate peace all the more. And the king gets to sit on his couch and cheer his troublemakers on as they die in battle. ---------- War hath no fury like a non-combatant. -- C. Montague
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:46:01 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Gene Johannsen wrote: > | > Ahh, that explains the vast technological and social > | > superiority that every semi-socialist state has had over the > | > capitalist western world. > | Ah the world's supply of fools is limitless. Do you even know > | the difference between economic equality and economic inequality? > | Do you even know the difference between political / military > | equality and inequality? What would you call each of these? > | In idiot terms so that even you can understand them: new ideas > | are created and spread by freedom of speech and democracy. All > | capitalism does is obstruct knowledge with trade secrets, patents, > | and copyrights. > Now explain why countries that have capitalism have come up > with the most ideas and spread them farther than countries with > so called social domocracy? So do you think these "great idea" countries all have capitalism as their one defining trait and not something like, say, free speech or the right to bear arms? Or perhaps high immigration and a large population? Who gets to define "great idea" anyway? If only kings can write history, then all of history's "great ideas" will have come from kings. --------- Life is a tennis match - an audience of journalists, a capitalist referee, philosopher players, and everyone else is the tennis ball. Great tennis requires no audience, no referee, not even a tennis ball.
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,alt.politics.socialism,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:35:39 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jack Plant wrote: > >> Alright, pick a better system. > >Easy, democratic socialism.... > There is no such thing. The false concept is used to scam suckers like > you. Imagine a country with wealth inequality so vast that the wealthy are able to buy their way into power with campaign contributions, lobby groups, grants to "think" tanks, paid petition workers, or simply by owning the press. What do you call it? "Democratic" capitalism. Imagine a country with power inequality so vast that the powerful are able to collect kickbacks, bribes, etc etc, and not face any opposition, simply because they can't be voted out of office. What do you call it? Autocratic "communism". ---------- The light of his faith quite put out, and his affections made desolate, he had clung with all the force of his nature to his work and his money; and like all objects to which a man devotes himself, they had fashioned him into correspondence with themselves... For joy is the best of wine, and Silas's guineas were a golden wine of that sort.
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:33:30 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. James A. Donald wrote: > Socialism is incompatible with democracy. Where democratically > elected leaders attempted to introduce socialism, for example > Gautemala, Chile, and Spain, they rapidly found it necessary to > silence opposition and imprison opposition leaders. It seems you are confusing wolves that call themselves apples with wolves that call themselves oranges. However you define socialism and democracy aside, answer this: is it easier to achieve political equality when wealth inequalities are great or when wealth inequalities are little? Or would you prefer monarchy? --------- Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one. - C. Salzenberg
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:24:37 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Matthew White wrote: > All this is pretty statndard to anyone who has ever worked in the sales > industry - the actual industry that move these great inventions owned by > the [insert derogatory and jealous words here] capitalist into the homes > of the [insert heart-string-twanging comment here] workers' homes. This > is something that anyone working in the sales industry knows. It seems you're actually assuming the "sales industry" is actually valuable to society. We need professional liars about as much as we need a hole in the head. The only reason the vast majority of the human population is still forced to work is because our exalted salesmen are inventing useless jobs for everyone to do. If they don't know they need it, then THEY DON'T NEED IT. But of course, we all love self-imposed slavery don't we? It's the Great American Dream (TM). So we can all panic about dwindling resources and fight cola wars in our spare time, because our JOBS depend on it. ---------- A human is a sex manual's way of producing more sex manuals.
From: "G. Eliot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,sci.econ Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:33:00 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Matthew White wrote: > When you realise that ANYONE can scrub a toilet or drive a bus and that > FEW people can make it as a salesman or an IT professional, reality will > tell you which is harder. > So I ask again, this time though, I don't give a shit about which you > would *prefer* to do. (I'd "prefer" to have the chairman of Disney's job > and get paid a salary of $200 million but the reality is that I can't do > the job like he can of building a company up like that *and keep it > running at a profit*) And I'd "prefer" to be a king, an emperor, a tyrant as well. You think being a tyrant is easy? No fucking way, takes much more out of you than being a juggler. Believe you me. I've been both. The fact is, we "need" IT pros about as much as toilet scrubbers and kings. I bet you even think you're somehow "smart" because of the things you've "learned". Truth is, Intelligence (TM) is brainwashing. The more people tell you your opinions are better, the more likely you'll actually believe your opinions are "better". And the less likely others would dare to disagree. -------- After we invented debate, we invented shame just so we could suffocate all dissenting ideas.
From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,comp.ai,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:51:00 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. John Frenster wrote: > > Experience doesn't breed wisdom. Experience breeds brainwashing. > Breeding is biologically sexual. Experience results in insight. What kind of insight are you talking about? Like thinking precious metals are vital to production just because people tell you they are? Like thinking girls should be shorter than boys just because people tell you they should? Like thinking high interest rates lowers the stock market just because brokers tell you they do? Like thinking a country that imports lots of things in exchange for "precious" metals is killing itself? --------- Mowing the lawn, dusting the furniture, painting the walls, worrying about the mortgage: history's greatest invention of busy-work to keep lemmings too unhappy to be bored.
From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:10:12 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Matthew White wrote: > I see the light. I was so wrong! When I eat something that I used to > like I must pretend that I am not eating it at all. I must never think > of anything that may make me happy if it requires a physical item. I > must never do anything for MY sake. ahhhhhhh...... yes. Now i am a > complete void. No I am nothing. I can't say it feels good because that > means I am doing something for myself and by the amount of posts that > you have posted, that is evil (volume makes correctness not factual data > these days) Capitalism is an acquired taste. Let's talk about brainwashing again. Not just in terms of what kind of people you find physically attractive, but also what kinds of foods you find "delicious". The fact is, the more a person is used to something, the more likely he will like it. There are "delicacies" in other nations that we over here would spit out after one taste. But after repeated eating, most children become "trained" to like the taste of things like coffee, cola, beer, root beer, etc... a few mood enhancing chemicals, and they begin to associate that drink with feeling good. When taken to extremes, they lose the ability to feel good without that drink. The same goes for sex, money, power, fame, whathaveyou. Why is such conservatism programed into humans? Because if behaving in a certain way has kept you alive so far, continuing to behave the same way will rather likely net you the same result. Stupidity happens when jackasses lose the ability to change their behavior, fail to improve themselves, and die because their environment has changed (as it always does). ----------- Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line.
From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:30:02 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. ericbl wrote: > Success results from many factors. Here's the most important one: > Unsuccessful people go out of their way to draw artificial lines between > their "job" and the "rest of their life" while successful people's lives > ARE their careers. This simple rule applies to virtually everyone I know. "Success" comes in many forms, whether it's excellence in the arts, in sport, in sciences, or in the manipulation of other people. It is indeed true that many "successful" people do nothing but what they are given currency to do. And because they have no other passions, they attach their entire sense of self-worth to their "exalted" career, and then kill themselves (or others) as soon as they think their career is over. But then again, how is success defined? It is defined by whoever has control over communication. Those with control have the ability to associate excellence in some task with green paper or shiny rocks. BUT even these associations aren't needed because most idiots that have learned to communicate associate "success" with praise. They can't even tell if they've succeeded unless a lot of other idiots tell them so. Many forget all about whatever it was they were doing, and begin to chase ONLY after praise (or shiny rocks or green paper). If we train dogs to associate food with the sound of a bell, would they starve themselves chasing after bells? ------------ If you hit a man over the head with a fish, he'll have a headache for a day. But if you teach a man to hit himself over the head with a fish, he'll have headaches for the rest of his life.
From: Lepore lepore@mhvx.net Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.theory Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:28:41 -0400 Organization: MHVNet > The great thing about capitalism is that no person is stuck in the > working class. If I don't like my job then I can go out and start my > own business. I can invest in other peoples businesses. If you don't > like the working class, you have the freedom to leave it. And if the 100 million people who don't like being in the working class were to leave it, who would do all the work?
From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,comp.ai,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,can.politics,misc.invest.stocks,misc.taxes,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 15:18:40 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. David Lakvold wrote: > Capitalism works for everyone! We have a fluid society. There is no > ancestral hierarchy in the US. A person can make, or not make, as much as > they chose. The only true differential in our society is intelligence. If > someone is smart they have more opportunities than a less intelligent > person. Don't buy into class envy (pun intended). "Intelligence" is nothing more than the realization that everyone is wrong in one way and right in another, and the desire to find out which parts are which. Why does it seem there is more intelligence among the physically weak, near sighted, left-handed, closeted homosexuals, or other inconspicuous oppressed group? Because oppression creates both hatred and self-hatred. Some focus on their hatred and become criminals. Others focus on their self- hatred and go insane. And a third draw on both to inflate their own egos, refusing to give away their secrets because they were fooled by Darwin into thinking that competition is always intra- species. -------- Experience doesn't breed wisdom. Experience breeds brainwashing.
From: "E. Schrodinger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,talk.politics.libertarian,sci.econ Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:52:25 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Guru George wrote: > And then you gape in wonder at the mess every society called > 'socialist' has ever made of itself! Or every society called 'democratic'. The only democracy we have in this country is democracy by dollars. Military, political, economic, religious monarchies. All around the world. A pile of shit by any other name still stinks. -------- The only thing that separates us from Pavlov's dogs is that we know WHY we are Pavlov's dogs... and think his dogs do not.
From: "E. Schrodinger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,sci.econ,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:03:28 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Joseph Crowe wrote: > around the country. The positive thing about voluntary communes, even > if they fail, relates to the lack of coercion. The coercive factor of > socialism by government decree draws the greatest resistance from people > who value individual freedoms above the needs of the hive. It is, in fact, nearly impossible to get away from the "hive" unless you are willing to strike it out on your own on a remote farm, providing all your own means of survival. Once you try to get someone to help you survive, you are forced to communicate... and it is this with this communication that agreements are made, laws are written, and brains are washed. Newton's Law of General Stupidity: Human behavior can be completely predicted by knowledge of all the chemical and electrical interactions within the brain. Thus there's no such thing as "free will". Heisenburg's Law of Special Stupidity: By trying to study the chemical and electrical interactions within a person's brain, we change those interactions. Thus it is not possible to determine "destiny". ------ If communication defines poverty, then poverty is the lack of control over communication.
From: Nate Holdren vel@mc.net Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politi Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:47:16 -0500 Organization: Very Little Bruce J Schuck wrote: > You seem to be mixing up capitalism and democracy. > Capitalism/socialism are ways to run an economy. > Democracy/Dictatorships/Monarchies are ways to run a country. > You can have capitalistic democracies. You can have capitalistic > dictatorships. > You can have democratic socialism, and non-democratic socialism. > I myself prefer democratic capitalism with some socialist policies like > Medicare and others. i would contest the possibility of true democracy under a capitalist economy. those who have the power to control the necessities of life have control over other human beings, a definite stumbling block in trying to build a more democratic society. also, much of politics is concerned with economics, i don't think there's quite as clear a boundary between the two as you seem to be saying. what is there to the running of a country that doesn't relate to economics?
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.democrats.d,misc.invest.stocks,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:02:11 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Paul S. Heidmann wrote: > Truth is, there are capitalistic and socialistic practices in every country. > There is no 'pure' country, one way or the other. The question is, which > practices are generally better for society? The most successful countries in > this world also happen to be those countries with systems that best approximate > capitalism. This suggests (but does not prove) that capitalism is the better > system. Get a fucking clue lugnut. Who is defining success? A media centered around commercial advertising, lame- brained products, and ratings? A press where "serious" reporters are constantly being censored by editors and their own fear of losing their own jobs or credibility? Capitalism can mean all things to all people until you break it down: 1. Military control of business or not? 2. Salary / personel decisions by vote or by command? 3. Hiding secrets or sharing information? 4. Product research for consumers or for marketers? 5. Lawsuits or mergers? ----- The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:52:57 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. tomdiehl wrote: > Stupidity must be paying handsomely then - isn't it the Republicans that > make all the money? BTW - when are you Democrats going to finally > eliminate poverty? Get on with it already, us dum repeblicins is tarred > of watin! Poverty will be eliminated when the people of the world finally determine what poverty is. By debate and vote. Of course, the means of communication must first be controlled by the people of the world as well. ------- Pavlov's Laws of Mutual Brainwashing: Repetition: The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers. Mutation: Loyalty was a "virtue" invented by kings to keep their pawns in line. Skepticism: If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it? Absorption: Pride is the irrelevant man's excuse for still feeling relevant. Focus: Mold colonies in a petri dish don't notice us watching them do battle.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:45:55 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Paul D. Lanier wrote: > > The truly needy people are those who do not have the time or > > power to communicate and those don't know how to brainwash. > > 1. Repeat your arguments over and over. > > 2. If that fails, find another route. > > 3. Absorb any ideas you agree with. > > 4. Never confuse the reward for the goal. > > So what is the goal? As far as I can tell, more communication > > and more mutual brainwashing. > Clearly, you've been reading Aldous Huxley. And I think he decided that > humans were 'rebels without a clue', who could only briefly found a sane > and just society (eg his last book _The Island_). Never confuse the > reward for the goal. Hmmm. What is the reward and what is the goal? And > you've obviously decided that the goal is without purpose. (I am not so > sure you're right about the goal, either.) The goal, quite simply, is to know God. "Become one" with God. BE GOD. God is the media. God is communication. God dictates who we are because communication teaches us who we are. We the "advanced" societies go study "primitive" cultures and "primitive" species to satisfy our own curiosity and perhaps learn a bit about ourselves. Do they know we're watching? Yes. ---------- When gorillas invent swords, will we hide, hunt, or educate? We extend their lives with medicine; do they think us gods?
From: "I. Pavlov" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,can.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:08:58 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Andras Nagy wrote: > All you lefties are either very ignorant or ill meaning. The world is > not a place where everybody is equal. It never was and never will. > Communism AND Socialism IS DEAD ! It did not work at all ! Read the > papers ! I suspect all who promote some stupid leftist ideology either > to be a moron or a thief like Lenin and Stalin was. Didn't work only because of autocracy and self-censorship. Communism and socialism are alive and well in every community that's mastered the art of brainwashing. These communities, of course, are afraid of teaching others the same art, for fear of losing their collective consciousness. ...in other words, for fear of losing control over their laws. They will be cowards forever. ------- If we teach gorillas our history, would they fight wars over it?
From: "J. Calvin" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:57:42 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Jim Glass wrote: > Perhaps it is an "intication" (sic) of the fact that some persons are > more capable than others; some more productive than others. > Perhaps persons with no skills, no talent, nothing desired in the > marketplace SHOULD be poor. Perhaps those who fail to study > in school, fail to learn, fail to develop their abilities--should not be > rewarded. Who defines skills? Who defines talent? A king defines it one way. A farmer defines it another way. Would this world be better off if everyone knew calculus, but nobody knew anything about growing food? The fact is, if you are unemployed, your skills are obviously not needed. Either we can let you starve (at which point we'll have to hire a bigger and better police state) or it becomes your JOB to learn until you CAN find a better paying job. Capitalist parents, of course, are afraid of this. Too much competition for their own kids. Capitalist businessmen, of course, are afraid of this. Might invent something to put them out of business. And where will we find the teachers? Where will we find the child-care providers? Who will build the schools? Of course, capitalist teachers, child-care providers, and school-builders are afraid to admit that their own jobs are about as useless as everyone else's.
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.politics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:27:53 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. mike jones wrote: > ~of it, and, thinking they're too stupid to understand the vote > ~anyway, they let somebody else do their voting for them. And > ~thus, they wind up as just another brick in the stock market > ~pyramid scheme. > Spoken like a true moron with no concept whatsoever of how the aftermarkets > function. I have NEVER met an investor who invested with the intent on his > 'voting' privileges. Yield is the key, fool. It's good to see a die-hard capitalist finally admitting that even share-holder democracy is a scam. > And investors don't actually DO anything? They risk their capital, but since > you morons have never worked hard enough to acquire any more capital than is > necessary to purchase a 'dime' bag, you wouldn't understand what it is to put > your hard-earned capital at risk. Don't make me laugh. Hard earned what? Paper? Numbers? No matter how big your bank account is, you'll still starve if there aren't farmers to feed you. You'll still die if there aren't doctors to take care of you. And here we are investing in, in what? You tell me.
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:09:11 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Brendan Watt wrote: > Take your resentment and fascist impulses to another country, say, North > Korea. North Korea was a nation full of isolationists. North Korea was a nation afraid that opening itself up, it would lose its heritage. In North Korea, managers were appointed from above, instead of elected from below. In North Korea, employees were afraid to disagree with their boss, for fear of being fired. Who is the kettle, who is the pot? > Most ideas are a dime a dozen. The key value add is deciding which > ideas deserve investment. That's what you DO when you invest money. > You try to put your money in good ideas... if the investor is right, the > ideas and the investor prosper. Money is an illusion. I'd be happy to give you the sleeve of the emperor's new clothes, if in return you'd give me some of that food you grew or some of that oil you shipped. --------- Only capitalists see the emperor's new clothes.
From: jimmork1@PioneerPlanet.infi.net (Jim Mork) Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 02:09:08 GMT Organization: InfiNet On Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:41:54 -0700, "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com wrote: >And for the vast majority of investors who actually believe they >have a say in the company they invest in, it's a total crock. >Bigshots like those in the Securities Industry Association are >quite crafty in getting votes by proxy. They instill apathy in >their small investors by hiding every issue behind obscure >legalese. The result? Small investors can't make heads or tails >of it, and, thinking they're too stupid to understand the vote >anyway, they let somebody else do their voting for them. And >thus, they wind up as just another brick in the stock market >pyramid scheme. It would be interesting to see just how often boards fail to get what they want. What, 1 percent of the time? Corporate democracy is a travesty.
From: Mike Lepore notmyaddress@zxzxz.net Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.philosophy.objectivism,sci.econ,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.taxes,alt.politics.reform,misc.invest.stocks,can.politics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: Re: Capitalism- Severe Iniquity Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:43:41 -0400 Organization: Workers' Control of Industry J. Iscariot wrote: > And for the vast majority of investors who actually believe they > have a say in the company they invest in, it's a total crock. > Bigshots like those in the Securities Industry Association are > quite crafty in getting votes by proxy. They instill apathy in > their small investors by hiding every issue behind obscure > legalese. The result? Small investors can't make heads or tails > of it, and, thinking they're too stupid to understand the vote > anyway, they let somebody else do their voting for them. And > thus, they wind up as just another brick in the stock market > pyramid scheme. In addition to that, the rise of mutual funds, which allows the average person to buy a diversified portfolio of investments of $1000, completely takes away the right to vote for management in industry.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,soc.women,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Welfare Parasites Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:49:18 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. KAD wrote: > > Of course, welfare "reform" to force single mothers to work > > without giving them adequate child care, nor an education, > > isn't REALLY meant to get single mothers to work. This > > legislation has been a great boon to all the horny employed > > males who can't find wives otherwise. Why else do you think > > women are never paid as much as men? Forget the job, forget > > independence. Marry a rich man instead. > Welfare sucks, I think we all can agree on that. > Men do not make it that way our society has. > Women get payed just as much as men now and > will soon be making more than men because of > the affirmative action, or should I say the > fucked up action. The ultimate goal of affirmative action is, of course, communism. Everybody is paid the same amount, unless that person is doing something nobody else wants to do. Husbands who have wives that married them only out of economic convenience, of course, are scared to death of this. If your wife can actually support herself, why would she need to put up with you anymore? Then what? If you can't vent your frustrations at work because your boss is an autocrat, and if you can't vent your frustration at home because your wife will leave you, what's left for you to do? Beat the kids, of course! ------ When they leave here they'll be completely restored to their normal terrible old selves. But maybe they'll be a little wiser for the wear.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian Subject: Re: Greed Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:57:53 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Bill Koehler wrote: > I want to keep what I earn. > You wish to take what I earn. > Whose greedy? Who gets a cut of what you earn? Who decides how much you earn? Economic autocrats. The more everyone can spend, the more everything costs.
18.4.97 As natural as might-makes-right economics. From: "S. Arsheesh" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,sci.econ,alt.activism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.youth,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.socialism,soc.rights.human,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism is the only way. Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:33:45 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. G*rd*n wrote: > 2. Many people sit on their asses in capitalism, but some > don't. This is also true of all other systems, real and > hypothetical. If everyone had to work, the human race would > die. Humans haven't had to work much for thousands of years. If society relied on EVERYONE working, there would be no such thing as government, no military, no press, no schools, no jails, no weapons of mass destruction, no art, no transportation, not even written language would have been invented because everybody would be too busy doing this or that just to survive. The dumbest flaming idiots still think they have to force the unemployed to work. The fact is, the world can support far over 50% unemployment right now. Employment isn't the goal. UNEMPLOYMENT is the goal. The association of work and survival was only useful thousands of years ago. Today it gets us nothing but tons of semi-useful products, 99% of which nobody would even want if there was no marketing. The difference between the classes is this: those who make a lot of money doing useless things they like to do, and those who make barely any money doing useless things they don't like to do. -------- Immigration (TM) is a boogeyman invented by slave masters to draw attention away from their autocracy. Limited Resources (TM) is a religion invented by financiers who think patent law is more productive than marine farming.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.activism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.youth,sci.econ,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism.youth-rights,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.socialism,soc.rights.human,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: Capitalism is the only way. Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:48:32 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Lizard wrote: > It is beyond me, however, how people can so easily decry a system when > it is quite obviously the logical end result of economic evolution. If > you take any society, they ultimately practice capitalism in one form or > another. Capitalism is the only system that will work for human nature: > It has obvious direct incentives to excel, the rewards are immediate or > short term, and it equalizes people. You live in a dream world. Capitalism is different from feudalism only as much as communism is different from democracy. Sure, might- makes-right politics is as "natural" as might-makes-right economics. But is it efficient? You tell me how much money your company is forced to waste on marketing and lawyers, just to keep the competition at bay, when it could've have been spent on research and SHARING information with the "competition". > The second arguement is that capitalism sponsors racism. This charge is > completely without base, there is no logical progression between free > market labor and race based discrimination. In fact, capatilism as a > system, unchecked by government (affirmative action), breaks down all > color, race, and sex barriers. Capatilism only sees three factors: > Quality, Cost, and Quantity. Capitalism doesn't just "sponsor" racism. Capitalism is another WORD for racism. Think about it. Whites refuse to work with blacks because of the color of their skin. Ford refuses to work with GM because of the shape of its logo. If civilization were founded on division, there wouldn't be civilization at all. ------ We are the music makers -- and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
From: "W. Wonka" cyu@geocities.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics,sci.econ,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.reform,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.socialism,can.politics,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican Subject: Re: capitalism, understanding what it is.. Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:17:28 -0700 Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc. Curt Howland wrote: > > And yet capitalists fight welfare, > Money, taken by force. I don't object to charity, > I object to force. If I go into a grocery store and start eating apples, there are 3 ways the "owner" can stop me: 1. Call security and drag me out. 2. Convince me to stop. Give me job. Offer to help me get MORE apples if I help clean the store. 3. Install locks and gates. Of course, that doesn't stop me from following somebody in. Where is the force? The difference between agreement and coercion is the difference between democracy and autocracy. ------- So much time and so little to do. Wait a minute. Strike that. Reverse it.

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