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Senator HOLMAN. In industries you mentioned sewerage, what other?

Mr. MYER. We are at Tule Lake, for example, operating a furniture factory, making furniture for schools. We are making our own furniture for the centers. It is not being sold outside.

We have at Gila a camouflage net factory, making camouflage nets for the Army. There are about 250 people working in that factory. We have a number of other, mostly small, industries. We are making things for the military, and the industries are supplying things for the maintenance and subsistence of our own centers.

Senator WALLGREN. Now, Mr. Chairman, at that point you have the feeding of all these people.

Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Senator WALLGREN. What is the cost to the Government of feeding these people?

Mr. MYER. We limit the per day feeding cost to 45 cents per person. It is averaging at the present time about 40 cents per person.

Senator CHANDLER. Your approximate cost per person now is about what?

Mr. MYER. Do you mean the total cost?

Senator CHANDLER. Yes.

Mr. MYER. I thought you asked for the feeding cost.

Senator CHANDLER. Yes; but I want to go a little further with it.

Mr. MYER. I don't have that figure. We will try to get the figure for you and we will supply it for the record.

Senator CHANDLER. About $700, isn't it?

(The matter referred to is as follows:)

Total estimated man-year cost, operation of
War Relocation Authority centers, fiscal year 1943

Actual obligations -- July 1 to Dec. 31, 1942
Estimated obligations -- Jan. 1 to June 30, 1943
Total cost, fiscal year, 1943

Purchase of land $2,000,000

75-percent value of buildings constructed 500,000

75-percent of equipment purchased 2,361,160

75-percent of construction material 8,250,000

Estimated number of man-years
Estimated cost per man-year

Mr. MYER. I cannot tell you off-hand, I have not figured it that way.

Senator WALLGREN. Now, we come to the matter of the mess hall, and then do the people in there do their own work?

Mr. MYER. They do.

Senator WALLGREN. They cook and set the table?

Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Senator WALLGREN. And they are paid wages, are they not?

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator WALLGREN. Who pays that wage?

Mr. MYER. The War Relocation Authority.

Senator WALLGREN. How much?

Mr. MYER. Sixteen dollars a month is the usual wage. They have their own food and their small clothing allowance. We are providing hospitalization and schools.

Senator WALLGREN. Now, in the making of these camouflage nets for the Army, what wage is paid there?

Mr. MYER. That is a special set-up. The workers get the same wage scale as W. R. A. would pay if they were doing other things in the center plus a bonus if they produce above a specified number of nets.

Senator WALLGREN. What is the approximate wage earnings of these girls making these nets?

Mr. MYER. The approximate wage would be somewhat more than the W. R. A. scale -- I do not have the figure. Mostly men are employed. It is heavy work.

Senator HOLMAN. Why don't he state the figure?

Mr. MYER. Our minimum wage is $12, the middle wage is $16, and no wage is above $19 a month. [By comparison, WPA monthly wage for a skilled worker in 1942 was $27, which did not include meals, rent, or medical benefits.] Those are the three wage-scale figures. The majority of the people are in the $16 class; we pay $12 for people that are apprentice, in work new to them. When they are trained most of them will get $16. The $19-class is used for professional people, such as doctors and others, who have rather costly training or supervisory jobs. We believed there should be a little differentiation between groups just as you have in normal communities.

Senator HOLMAN. In each camp, they are identical, aren't they, one is practically the same as the other?

Mr. MYER. No; they are not quite identical.

Senator HOLMAN. I mean, so far as the personnel you have in the camps, the evacuees.

Senator CHANDLER. He means, do you segregate them or are they all just mixed together?

Mr. MYER. They are pretty much of a cross section.

Senator WALLGREN. Just a cross section?

Mr. MYER. Yes.

Senator WALLGREN. You have had some experiences, haven't you?

Mr. MYER. Sure.

Senator WALLGREN. They have staged a few riots, you got a few men in there that have been inciting other Japs, trying to start trouble.

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator WALLGREN. What do you do with those fellows?

Mr. MYER. Some have been sent to alien detention camps. Some of them are citizens of the United States and have been moved to an isolation center. The only difficulties of importance we have had in the centers were a demonstration at Poston and a riot at Manzanar.

We have moved out 16 troublemakers from the Manzanar center. A portion of these people have been assigned to alien detention camps. The rest of them are in a C. C. C. camp in eastern Utah, at Moab, an isolation camp. There will be more there as soon as we find out who the troublemakers are.

I would like to talk to that point because it is important. When evacuees are moved into centers they are practically pulled loose from all the normal controls. New law enforcement procedures in the areas in which the evacuees are placed cannot carry the burden of the cost of courts and law enforcement. So we have had to work out policies that involved new government procedures. We have had to develop a police system, courts, schools, fire department, and similar services necessary in any city.

The normal processes of the intelligence agencies of the United States, namely, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Naval Intelligence, and Army Intelligence practically ceased to operate when these people went into the centers.

For example, the Federal Bureau of Investigation operates normally in close cooperation with local police forces; they have sources of information and a well-developed organization. The Federal Bureau of Investigation does not come into our centers unless we call them in, or unless in following up a case they want to come in.

Senator CHANDLER. Have you called them in?

Mr. MYER. Many times; yes. That has created one of our problems, incidentally. It was one of the elements that led to the incident at Manzanar.

I would like to point out that you have three generations of people; the elders, the men average around 59 years of age and the women around 50, are not only of Japanese extraction, but they come from Japan. Many of them do not speak English well, and they don't read English, they read Japanese. Around 66-2/3 percent of all of this group are American citizens of the second and third generation, much more American than they are Japanese in their culture.

Senator O'MAHONEY. What percent?

Mr. MYER. Around two-thirds.

Senator O'MAHONEY. I was going back to the native Japs, or the alien Japs. What percentage do they constitute, the non-English-speaking man and his wife?

Mr. MYER. Approximately 35 percent of the population are aliens. I do not know what percentage of the aliens do not speak English.

The older people were raised under a different type of culture than ours. This was no serious problem as long as they were living in normal communities, but the minute you pull them loose from the normal economy, when they eat in mess halls, and have no family table to gather around, family controls that would normally be adequate do not function well. We have in these populations a large group of youngsters between the ages of 10 and 25. When these youngsters are at home they are employed on the farms or in some occupation. In relocation centers it is difficult to provide employment for all those youngsters of high-school age.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Does that table indicate how many are under 21.

Mr. MYER. Yes, these figures are from the 1940 census so they are only approximately correct.

The underneath chart shows the Japanese-American population, and this chart shows the normal curve, your population figure. This is the age along here {indicating}, and this is the female group on this side and the male group on this side {indicating}. These over here are aliens.

Now, you will note that by far the larger percentage of those above 35 years old are aliens. This little streak here are citizens, but practically all of your citizens are under 35 years. The largest group of your population is between the ages of 10 and 25; around 98 or 99 percent of whom are American citizens.

Senator WALLGREN. They are also Japanese citizens?

Mr. MYER. No; not any more than the descendants of other countries that recognize dual citizenship.

Senator HOLMAN. At any time that the Chairman of the Commission things well of it, I would like to offer or have on record the statement of Mr. Peoples of the F. B. I. relative to that question.

Senator O'MAHONEY. In order to make this very clear, I am pointing to the segment of the chart between the ages of 15 and 20.

Mr. MYER. Yes?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, what proportion of these people are represented by these various types that appear on the chart? I notice on each end a very narrow column.

Mr. MYER. That narrow column represents those that are aliens in that age group. In terms of those here {indicating} approximately 200 in that group, perhaps are aliens. All the rest of them, which would be about 17,000, are citizens.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Then it is my understanding from this chart that there are 17,000 persons between the ages of 15 and 20 in all of these camps, and of those, all but about 200 are native-born in the United States.

Mr. MYER. That is approximately correct. There may be some error -- this population chart shows the population of Washington, Oregon, California, and Arizona as of 1940, and all are not in centers, but the same proportion would exist.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, then, could you make the same on this in this way, groups coming under 15 and 20, 10 and 15, 5 and 10, and under 5, and let us know?

Mr. MYER. May I supply that for the record?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Surely. In other words, I think it would be helpful to the committee to have a chart showing the various age groups with respect to nativity.

Mr. MYER. I would be glad to provide that.

Now, the point I want to make on this chart is this: Many, many people raise the question, why don't you separate the aliens from the citizens, and so forth?

I would like to point out that many of the parents of these youngsters are aliens and that the majority of the citizens are below 20 years of age, and are attached to families. So to separate citizens from aliens would present a complex problem.

Now, going back to the internal security problem at Manzanar. for example. Some disturbances have been caused by boys there whose fathers were interned because they were fishermen before the evacuation. Those boys have become a real problem at the centers because their fathers cannot look after them. Some of them have formed a gang -- made themselves very obnoxious.

Senator O'MAHONEY. And we consider them citizens.

Mr. MYER. We consider them citizens; yes, sir. You will have gangs of boys in any city. We have them in certain centers because we have separated the boys from their parents at an age when controls are pretty important. That creates a special problem, I do think, in our internal security problem -- this is a personal opinion, Senator.

Senator CHANDLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. MYER. I don't pose as being an expert on matters of loyalty and disloyalty of people. I don't find many people who do. The majority of aliens, I would say, lean in their culture toward Japan. This is perfectly natural. I think those of us here, born and reared in this country, would always tie back to the culture of this country if we moved to a foreign country.

However, the people who have children, generally speaking, and who have children in the schools of this country, and who know they and their children are going to stay here, are much more pro-American than those who do not. Their interest is in their children, and consequently they are pretty well tied in to our culture.

The biggest problem at the centers, in addition to those boys I spoke about, and gangs that are developing, are the old bachelors, of which there are many. These alien people are loosed from their normal occupations. A lot of them are employed as cooks and mess-hall workers in the relocation centers and have nothing to look forward to in this country. They are preying on the minds of people by pointing out every newspaper article that is written, every bill introduced in the State legislatures or Congress that indicates that something should be done with these people other than leave them in the United States. Consequently, trouble is developing at some of the centers; it developed at Manzanar.

The older people were afraid to have their youngsters work on camouflage nets at the factories for the simple reason that they were made to believe that they were going to be shipped back to Japan anyhow, and anything they did to collaborate with the administration would be a black mark against them, and they didn't want black marks if they were going to have to go back there.

If we could only get the public to understand that we have a morale problem in these youngsters, I am sure people would not write letters to newspapers of the type that I have seen.

Now, the morale problem is perhaps our major problem. I don't know whether any of you have been reading the Saturday Evening Post series of articles by Joseph Alsop on Hongkong and the behavior of some of our American citizens in internment camps. You may be interested in reading it. There is a factor in there that does not enter into this problem because those people are hungry, these people are not. Otherwise, I think you will find people over here confined in camps behave much the same way that people in those camps do.

Senator CHANDLER. Tell us what happened at Manzanar. Let's get an accurate picture. [See also intelligence reports IA037, IA031, and IA202.]

Mr. MYER. I will be glad to do so. Incidentally, I will be glad to place a statement in the record at some length.

Mr. Chairman, this is about what happened at Manzanar. I will tell you first what happened at the time of the riot, and I will go back---

Senator CHANDLER. For the members of the committee, I would like you to tell if Bishop, Calif., was---

Mr. MYER. Bishop, Calif., is the county seat of Inyo County, which is the county in which Manzanar is located.

Senator CHANDLER. They voted unanimously in their council to send for the Army, request the Army to take it over after this riot, because the local people did not feel secure. They were afraid the riot might lead to trouble. I am sure you are conscious they didn't feel safe. If you have anything to tell us we would be very glad so that we may be able to show it to our people.

Mr. MYER. I will take the last point, if I may comment on that one.

Senator CHANDLER. Yes.

Mr. MYER. I don't believe any people of Japanese ancestry had lived in Inyo County prior to the time the center was located there. I have made this statement many times, and I make it again, that people are usually afraid of the unknown. They are afraid of things or people they don't know. I think, if you will stop to think about it, that is true. Although many of these older people may be alien in their culture, in my opinion very few of them are dangerous people. I think that has been proven by the fact that there has not been, as I have mentioned, one instance through the whole program of an attack by a Japanese against a person having a white skin. The trouble has been between evacuees.

Now going back to Manzanar, in December a Japanese by the name of Fred Tayama was beaten in his apartment by six people.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Inside the camp?

Mr. MYER. Inside the camp and inside his apartment.

Senator HOLMAN. Will you tell us who the six people were -- were they six Japanese people?

Mr. MYER. Six Japanese people, that is right.

Senator HOLMAN. This beaten man, was he a citizen?

Mr. MYER. Yes; he was a citizen of the United States. Tayama had been active in the Japanese-American Citizen League before the center ever came into being. As nearly as I can find out, there were certain old grudges involved in the situation. This is what happened:

On Saturday night, December 5, Fred Tayama, a former owner of a chain of restaurants in Los Angeles, unpopular at Manzanar because he was regarded as a "labor baiter" and F. B. I. informer, was severely beaten by six masked men. He named as one of his assailants Harry Ueno, a former labor leader, and personal enemy. Ueno was arrested and sent to the Independence jail in Inyo County.

On Sunday, December 6, about noontime, the Japanese evacuees called a mass meeting on the broad, open strip of the camp used as a firebreak. Observers estimated that between 200 and 400 people were present. A detail of evacuee policemen was sent to the meeting by the Chief of Internal Security. They returned and told him that they had been sent away. Thereupon, Mr. Merritt, the project director, and Mr. Gilkey, Chief of Internal Security, decided to go to the meeting. When they got there, it was breaking up.

Meanwhile, they had requested Captain Hall, commanding officer of the military police detail, to stand by in case of trouble. From a bystander at the meeting, they were told the purpose of the meeting was to (a) protest the arrest of Ueno and demand his release, and (b) to "get" Tayama and other Japanese regarded as informers. They were also told that a committee of five had been appointed to represent the evacuees in talking with the project director. Mr. Merritt and Mr. Gilkey then returned to the Administration Building to await the committee of five.

The committee came almost at once, but not alone. It was at the head of a crowd estimated to contain about 1,000 persons, all men and boys. Captain Hall and about 12 soldiers arrived at the Administration Building at the same time. Captain Hall mounted machine guns. The project director, Mr. Merritt, Mr. Gilkey, the Chief of Internal Security, and Captain Hall walked out to meet the crowd. The committee came up to them and demanded the immediate release of Ueno. The project director refused to negotiate with the crowd and demanded that it disperse.

While the crowd was respectful to the project director and to Captain Hall, it was in all other respects surly and unruly. The committee of five spoke in a violent manner. There is evidence that agitators were scattered among the crowd to keep sentiment stirred up.

Recognizing its temper, Captain Hall sent for more soldiers to strengthen his detachment. In all, there were about 30 soldiers present.

It soon became apparent to Mr. Merritt that the crowd would not disperse. He believed there was imminent danger of bloodshed. The soldiers were being taunted and insulted, and some sticks and stones were thrown. Mr. Merritt then asked the committee of five to accompany him alone around the corner of the building to talk. After some discussion with the committee, he reached the following understanding with it:
(a) That Ueno would be returned to the Manzanar jail after the crowd dispersed but he would be tried in a manner decided by Mr. Merritt, the project director.
(b) The crowd was to disperse immediately.
(c) No mass meetings were to be held without specific authority.
(d) All future grievances would be taken up through recognized committees.
(e) The committee of five would help find the assailants of Tayama.
After this agreement was reached, Joe Kurihara, a soldier in the United States Army in the last World War, a member of the American Legion, but embittered by the evacuation, burst into a fanatical tirade in which he disclaimed loyalty to the United States and threatened death to all F. B. I. informers. He apparently expressed the sentiment of the crowd when he said that "It was not right to punish people for beating informers like Tayama." Kurihara then spoke to the crowd in Japanese. After some applause, the crowd dispersed, and the soldiers left taking their guns with them.

It was said by some that Kurihara misinterpreted the terms of the agreement and that what he said in fact was that the committee had won a victory over Mr. Merritt and he was going to do what they asked. No one appears to remember exactly what Kurihara said. Japanese questioned said he tried to explain the agreement.

Within an hour after the crowd had dispersed, it is reported that football games were going on and children were playing in the street, so, Ueno, in accordance with the agreement, was returned to Manzanar and placed in that jail.
Football practice, 1943
Football practice, Manzanar, 1943. (Ansel Adams)

Then, on Sunday evening, about 6 o'clock, Dr. Goto, one of the Japanese doctors at the hospital, telephoned Mr. Merritt, who was at his apartment, that a large crowd had gathered in the firebreak near block 22, which is immediately across from the hospital, and that he had learned that this crowd was being organized in two parts -- one to go to the hospital and "get" Tayama; the other to go to the police station and release Ueno. About the same time, Mr. Williams, Assistant Chief of Internal Security, notified Mr. Merritt by telephone that a large crowd was marching toward the police station. The project director instructed Mr. Williams to call Captain Hall for a military guard. This is what happened at the hospital:

Between 200 and 300 persons marched on the hospital and demanded that Tayama be turned over to them. They were prevented from entering by three Japanese girls employed as nurses' aides. While this crowd was said to be orderly and polite, it was insistent in its determination to get Tayama.

Meanwhile, before the crowd arrived, Dr. Little, who is in charge of the hospital, asked the military to send an ambulance and remove Tayama. Believing that this had been done, he agreed to permit two or three members of the crowd to enter and search the hospital. The search was made and Tayama was not found. It developed that the ambulance had not come, but Tayama, hearing the crowd outside, badly beaten though he was, crawled under a bed and hid there. Upon failing to find Tayama, the crowd went away.

This is what happened at the police station:

The second crowd marched upon the police station about 6:50 p. m. Observers estimated there were approximately 500 men and boys in the crowd. There were no women. This crowd was headed by the same committee of five. They rushed into the jail and released Ueno who refused to leave the jail, saying he wanted the project director to release him. Mr. Merritt in the meantime had remained by his telephone, and, when Mr. Williams, assistant internal security officer, advised him of the true nature of the situation, he was instructed by Mr. Merritt to telephone Captain Hall and ask him to take command.

The military police came, about 135 in number, and were deployed in front of the police station. Machine guns were mounted. Mr. Merritt then tried to join Captain Hall, but was not allowed to pass through the sentry lines, so returned to his apartment where he could be near the telephone so he could communicate with Mr. Williams.

Captain Hall talked to the committee of five in the police station. He reminded them of their agreement of the afternoon and ordered the crowd to disperse. The temper of the crowd is uncertain. Captain Hall reported it was quiet when he talked. On the other hand, officers under his command reported that the attitude of the crowd was insulting, ugly, and menacing. Captain Hall finally decided the crowd would not disperse, so he decided to use gas grenades. The crowd ran in all directions. Some ran toward the soldiers, and, although no order to fire was given, three shots were fired from shotguns. The soldiers did this on their own initiative. The men were all trained in military police duties. During the melee, a driverless automobile was released by the crowd and headed for the police station. It struck a corner of the station and ran into a Government truck; as it careened toward the soldiers, one of the lieutenants opened fire on it with a sub-machine gun. When the smoke and dust cleared away, the injured were lying on the ground. Some were removed by the evacuees into the police station, and all of them were later removed by the ambulance to the hospital. One boy was killed instantly and 10 others were injured. One of the injured died on December 11.

While the camp was awake all Sunday night, there were no demonstrations of any nature on Monday, December 7.

And that, gentlemen, in brief is what happened at Manzanar.

Senator WALLGREN. How many arrests were made?

Mr. MYER. So far, 16 people have been removed from the center. Most of them are in this isolation camp I told you about. Two or three families were permitted to move to other centers. There are still others who will be picked up after our investigations are completed. Manzanar has been quiet for quite some time now. People went back to work about Christmas time. Thus, the center is gradually getting back to normal.

Senator CHANDLER. Was there not some demonstration against the United States Government?

Mr. MYER. Well, in the first place, let me say that the riot was not in any sense started as a Pearl Harbor demonstration. It started December 5. It was a development from a whole series of things that gradually---

Senator WALLGREN. No, come on to December 7.

Mr. MYER. On December 7 the incident was over, and Manzanar was quiet.

Senator WALLGREN. Was it December 5th or 6th?

Mr. MYER. The 5th is when this thing started. Now, there was a statement made by someone it was a Pearl Harbor demonstration. I think that was incidental.

Senator WALLGREN. These 16 men that were arrested, were they citizens?

Mr. MYER. Some of them were, Senator. I think, with one or two exceptions, they were either aliens or Kibei. I may say that Kibei is a term applied to citizens born in this country who have had a portion or all of their education in Japan.

Senator WALLGREN. Quite a few of them?

Mr. MYER. I think if you count everybody that had any reasonable part of his education in Japan, there are probably 5,000 or 6,000. The figures I am giving you are from memory.

Senator WALLGREN. Now, Mr. Myer, there is another question. I would like to ask you how many of these camps publish Japanese newspapers.

Mr. MYER. All centers publish some kind of a newspaper in English. Some of them have one or two page supplements in Japanese containing mostly official announcements or translations from the English edition.

Senator WALLGREN. Do you have any copies of those?

Mr. MYER. Not with me. I can supply you copies, any of them that you might wish.

Senator HOLMAN. May I interpose a question?

Senator CHANDLER. Yes, sir.

Senator HOLMAN. I would like to know if you ever did succeed in apprehending all those men who beat up this certain one man who was acting as police for you, and if you know what is the condition of the one man who was beaten up.

Mr. MYER. The one man beaten up is well at this time. We are not sure we apprehended all six.

Senator HOLMAN. In other words, you didn't get cooperation from these people?

Mr. MYER. Oh, no; not from the gang that did the beating.

Senator HOLMAN. Then I don't think it is quite as simple as your testimony would lead us to believe.

Mr. MYER. No; Senator, I don't think it was simple. It is one of the most complex situations that has ever been dealt with.

We are not sure who beat this man. The man who was beaten was the only eyewitness to the beating. He was certain in his identification of only one of the six men, the one we arrested.

Senator CHANDLER. Mr. Myer, let me ask you this question: It is true that your local police force of the relocation organization broke down, you could not handle it that day and you had to have the military?

Mr. MYER. That was the judgment of the project director, and I accept it.

Senator CHANDLER. He didn't handle it.

Mr. MYER. He couldn't control the situation, therefore, having this arrangement with the military police, he asked the commanding officer of the guard company to take charge.

Senator CHANDLER. How far away were the military police? There were available, were they?

Mr. MYER. They are right adjacent.

Senator CHANDLER. In sight?

Mr. MYER. Oh, yes; they are continually patrolling the area. They have guards on the job all the time.

Senator CHANDLER. What is the average force of military outside?

Mr. MYER. Around 105 to 135 at each center. At our centers one company of the military police is a normal complement.

Senator HOLMAN. In this gathering, you might call it a mob, possibly, were there men, women, and children, or just men?

Mr. MYER. There were men and boys. There were a good many youngsters under 20 years or so. The boy that was killed outright, a boy by the name of Ito, was 18 years old. I think he had nothing to do with inciting this mob. I may say, incidentally, that his brother is a member of the American armed forces and attended the funeral in uniform.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Were there any other similar disturbances in any other camp?

Mr. MYER. At Poston, Ariz., along about Thanksgiving or shortly before, there was quite a little demonstration. It was handled without the intervention of the military police. There was no property damage, and nobody was hurt.

Senator O'MAHONEY. What was the cause of that?

Mr. MYER. The same general cause -- a man was arrested and the evacuees requested dismissal of the case.

Senator HOLMAN. What justification did these people give for beating up the officers? Did they give any?

Mr. MYER. Well, there was no officer involved at Poston.

The main justification they give is that some of these people have relatives in internment camps, fathers, brothers, husbands. And they believe many of them have been arrested unjustly. So they are extremely sensitive. If they think the person attacked is a stooge, an informer of the F. B. I. and responsible for having some of their people put in internment camps, they think that they have reason to defend the person or persons who beat up the alleged informer.

I may say, Mr. Chairman, that I have been amazed that we have not had more trouble. Since last March when this evacuation started, only two major incidents have developed. So far as crime is concerned, I would say that their record is a little better than the average cross section of the public.

I am not talking about loyalties, I am talking now about normal criminal experience. If you would take a record of any 10 cities of from 7,000 to 17,000 in the United States and compare it with the record of these centers, I think you would find that crimes are amazingly few.

Senator HOLMAN. The fact remains, does it not, it is a rather perilous job for a Japanese to cooperate with the American authorities.

Mr. MYER. It is at some centers, like Manzanar. I think we can cure that.

Let me go back, now, to some of the underlying reasons for the trouble at Manzanar. It was the first assembly center that was set up; it was one of the first centers W. R. A. took over. Poston and Tule Lake are the two other old centers. We had a big job recruiting personnel, getting them trained, and formulating policies. It was not until the middle of August or the 1st of September that many of the policy statements that were essential to the operation of the centers were ready.

Senator WALLGREN. How were the police taking care of this problem in the meantime?

Mr. MYER. We set up temporary police provisions. Of course, the military police were there before the evacuees arrived.

Senator WALLGREN. You had 10,000 in one camp, and 17,000 Japanese aliens---

Mr. MYER. No; people of Japanese ancestry.

Senator WALLGREN. Well, all right, a great many of them Japanese. The F. B. I. have picked up any amount of stuff, and by that remark I am speaking of weapons and instruments.

Senator HOLMAN. Senator, covering my observation. I will just give, if it is in order, I was a member of the Senate committee, the experience that Mr. Peoples reported to us in Alaska, if you think well of it, either on or off the record, I think it would be well if a great many of the other Members hear, and other Members of the Senate hear, the gist of the situation.

Senator WALLGREN. I thought we were going along with questions, weren't we?

Senator CHANDLER. We will discuss this off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Senator O'MAHONEY. I understood you to say, Mr. Myer, earlier in the morning, that the Army moved out of this picture altogether.

Mr. MYER. Excepting for the policing of the exterior of the center by the military police.

Senator O'MAHONEY. That is right.

Mr. MYER. Other than where we have requested them to collaborate, Senator, on certain procurement and construction work, and they have given us services in connection with intelligence records.

Senator O'MAHONEY. But from the beginning of the war, from the bombing of Pearl Harbor up to the establishment of W. R. A., the Army had complete charge under the direction of General DeWitt, commanding that region of the Army on the west coast.

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, what were the factors, if you know, which led to the transfer of the authority from the military to the civilian agency.

Mr. MYER. It is my understanding that the Army requested that a civilian agency be established to handle this relocation problem beyond the assembly center phase because it was their business to fight wars. The Army wanted to be free of programs of this kind. That is about all I can say on that, Senator. I was not a party to the program at the time. I became director of W. R. A. on June 17.

Senator O'MAHONEY. June 17, 1942?

Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Prior to that time, who was in immediate charge, under General DeWitt, of the evacuee problem?

Mr. MYER. Colonel Bendetsen, who was head of the Civil Affairs Division, handled for General DeWitt the evacuation program.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Was Milton Eisenhower in it at that time?

Mr. MYER. Milton Eisenhower was director of W. R. A. from March 19 until June 17, 1942.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Mr. Eisenhower appeared in the picture only after the transfer from the Army.

Mr. MYER. Mr. Eisenhower and his staff and the Army were working on the program concurrently. Mr. Eisenhower was director of W. R. A. for approximately the first three months of its life.

Senator O'MAHONEY. By whom was the Executive order drawn, if you know?

Mr. MYER. I cannot tell you that. It was an Executive order by the President, and I was not present.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Did you put a copy of it in the record?

Mr. MYER. No; we have not, but we will be glad to.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that a copy of the Executive order be inserted at this point.

Senator CHANDLER. All right, without objection.

(The copy of the Executive order is as follows:)


By virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and statutes of the United States as President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, and in order to provide for the removal from designated areas of persons whose removal is necessary in the interests of national security, it is ordered as follows:

1. There is established in the Office for Emergency Management of the Executive Office of the President the War Relocation Authority, at the head of which shall be a Director appointed by and responsible to the President.

2. The Director of the War Relocation Authority is authorized and directed to formulate and effectuate a program for the removal, from areas designated from time to time by the Secretary of War or appropriate military commander under the authority of Executive Order No. 9066 of February 19, 1942, of the persons or classes of persons designated under such Executive Order, and for their relocation, maintenance, and supervision.

3. In effectuating such program the Director shall have authority to:

(a) Accomplish all necessary evacuation not undertaken by the Secretary of War or appropriate military commander, provide for the relocation of such persons in appropriate places, provide for their needs in such manner as may be appropriate, and supervise their activities.

(b) Provide, insofar as feasible and desirable, for the employment of such persons at useful work in industry, commerce, agriculture, or public projects, prescribe the terms and conditions of such public employment, and safeguard the public interest in the private employment of such persons.

(c) Secure the cooperation, assistance, or services of any governmental agency.

(d) Prescribe regulations necessary or desirable to promote effective execution of such program, and, as a means of coordinating evacuation and relocation activities, consult with the Secretary of War with respect to regulations issued and measures taken by him.

(e) Make such delegations of authority as he may deem necessary.

(f) Employ necessary personnel, and make such expenditures, including the making of loans and grants, and the purchase of real property as may be necessary, within the limits of such funds as may be made available to the Authority.

4. The Director shall consult with the United States Employment Service and other agencies on employment and other problems incident to activities under this order.

5. The Director shall cooperate with the Alien Property Custodian appointed pursuant to Executive Order No. 9095 of March 11, 1942, in formulating policies to govern the custody, management and disposal by the Alien Property Custodian of property belonging to foreign nationals removed under this order or under Executive Order No. 9066 of February 19, 1942; and may assist all other persons removed under either of such Executive Orders in the management and disposal of their property.

6. Departments and agencies of the United States are directed to cooperate with and assist the Director in his activities hereunder. The Departments of War and Justice, under the direction of the Secretary of War and the Attorney General, respectively, shall insofar as consistent with the national interest provide such protective, police and investigational services as the Director shall find necessary in connection with activities under the order.

7. There is established within the War Relocation Authority the War Relocation Work Corps. The Director shall provide, by general regulations, for the enlistment in such Corps, for the duration of the present war, of persons removed under this order or under Executive Order No. 9066 of February 19, 1942, and shall prescribe the terms and conditions of the work to be performed by such Corps, and the compensation to be paid.

8. There is established within the War Relocation Authority a Liaison Committee on War Relocation which shall consist of the Secretary of War, the Secretary of Treasury, the Attorney General, the Secretary of Agriculture, the Secretary of Labor, the Federal Security Administrator, the Director of Civilian Defense, and the Alien Property Custodian, or their deputies, and such other persons or agencies as the Director may designate. The Liaison Committee shall meet at the call of the Director and shall assist him in his duties.

9. The Director shall keep the President informed with regard to the progress made in carrying out this order, and perform such related duties as the President may from time to time assign to him.

10. In order to avoid duplication of evacuation activities under this order and Executive Order No. 9066 of February 19, 1942, the Director shall not undertake any evacuation activities within military areas designated under said Executive Order No. 9066, without the prior approval of the Secretary of War or the appropriate military commander.

11. This order does not limit the authority granted in Executive Order No. 8972 of December 12, 1941; Executive Order No. 9066 of February 19, 1942; Executive Order No. 9095 of March 11, 1942; Executive Order No. 2526 of December 8, 1941; Executive Proclamation No. 2533 of December 29, 1941; or Executive Proclamation No. 2537 of January 14, 1942; nor does it limit the functions of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


March 18, 1942.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Then you were not consulted at all about the drafting of this Executive order?

Mr. MYER. I was not, because it was 3 months before I came into the organization.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do you know by whom the policy was decided, whether it was decided in the War Department, or decided outside the War Department?

Mr. MYER. It was my understanding that it was decided by a group of people from several departments.

The Director of the Bureau of the Budget was the man who interviewed me and asked me to take this position after Mr. Eisenhower stepped out. I think that agency drafted the Executive order, but I am not sure.

Senator O'MAHONEY. All Executive orders are drafted by the agencies involved usually, but they pass through the Bureau of the Budget---

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. And the Department of Justice---

Mr. MYER. Right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Before they are sent to the President.

Mr. MYER. I may say, Mr. Eisenhower probably could give you the details regarding it because he was working on this problem for several days, I am sure, before the Executive was issued.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You were not consulted?

Mr. MYER. I was not consulted because I was not in the picture at that time at all.

Senator O'MAHONEY. The Executive order provides that the War Relocation Authority shall be represented by a director who is to be responsible to the President.

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Have you had conferences with the President?

Mr. MYER. Not personally; no, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do you make reports to the President?

Mr. MYER. Yes, we have made several reports to the President.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Since you have begun in your War Relocation Authority, have there been any changes of policy?

Mr. MYER. Not with respect to the general administration of the program, nor have we changed the over-all policies. We have made many refinements and corrected some of our earlier mistakes.

Senator O'MAHONEY. When you assumed the function of directing, was the policy to be followed laid down to you?

Mr. MYER. Certain general policies were laid down at that time.

Senator O'MAHONEY. By whom were these policies laid down?

Mr. MYER. Some of them were placed in effect by the previous director before I came in and from experience since then we have adopted some new operating policies, but there has been little change in the over-all policies since I have been director.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, could you give us a brief summary of policies with respect, first, to construction, then with respect to education, then with respect to feeding, and finally, with respect to working policy?

Mr. MYER. I will be glad to.

Senator O'MAHONEY. In other words, the general program by which you are guided in administering the various camps, and the reason for this policy.

Mr. MYER. All right.

Senator CHANDLER. Senator, may I interrupt you just a minute, to say that we have several Members of the House here. Mr. Harris is here from Arkansas, and Mr. Norrell from Arkansas; Mr. J. Leroy Johnson, Congressman from California. They have to leave to go back to the House. I would like to have all you gentlemen know that the committee appreciates your presence, and if you would like to come back and join us, and ask any questions or be heard here, we would like very much to have you back, and you just indicate your wishes to us in that matter.

Senator HOLMAN. Have any Members of the House any observations to make at this time?

Senator CHANDLER. I want you to feel free, and I want to express appreciation for your interest and for your coming to see us.

Mr. Johnson, I know, has introduced a resolution to have the camps investigated in the House.

If any of you would like to make a statement, of course, we would like you to do so, or if you would like to ask Mr. Myer any questions.

Mr. JOHNSON. Congressman Norrell and I, and, of course, Senator McClellan, are very much interested because we have two of these camps in our State, and in our district. We have discussed the matter at a delegation, as Mr. Myer will remember, and we are somewhat familiar with the situation, and being especially interested, we want to attend these hearings as much as possible, and we appreciate the opportunity of being here.

I would like to inquire if we went out, could we come back before you conclude your hearings?

Senator WALLGREN. How long do you think we will sit today?

Senator CHANDLER. Have you any wishes? It is a quarter to 1. If the committee would like to have a recess, why, we will have a recess and then come back.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Suppose we continue for 15 minutes or so to give Mr. Myer an opportunity to answer the questions that I have just asked him.

Senator CHANDLER. All right, no hurry about it.

I want the record to show that Senator McClellan is here from Arkansas, although a nonmember of the committee, he has been in attendance on these hearings.

Senator Johnson is here from Colorado.

We will be here from time to time and will appreciate you gentlemen returning any time you can.

All right, Mr. Myer.

Mr. MYER. The basic construction erected by the Army included barracks, mess halls, bath houses, and those other facilities that were essential before people could move in. Construction was supervised by the Engineer Corps.
Most of the construction was built under contract by them. As indicated previously, we are planning to provide certain school buildings, additional administrative quarters, and certain other buildings for use in connection with farm and other operations that we think are essential. These are being reviewed or have been reviewed by the War Production Board. They are being constructed largely by evacuee labor.
Church service, Poston, 1942
Senator O'MAHONEY. Churches?

Mr. MYER. We had hopes to make provision for one building to serve as a church at each center. Whether or not that will be provided, we are not sure. That is one of the items that is before the W.P. B. at the present time. [PHOTO: "On the night of the arrival of the first evacuees of Japanese ancestry, religious services
were held in this religious center on the Colorado River Indian Reservation." (Poston, 1942)]

Senator O'MAHONEY. What are the general principles upon which this program of school and church construction was based? What are you aiming at?

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. MYER. As regards schools, as indicated by that population chart, approximately one-fourth of the total population is of school age, either elementary or high school, of which a very large number are in the high school group. We are trying to provide at each of the centers elementary and high school provisions which will meet the minimum educational standards in the State in which the center is located.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How did you come to decide as a policy that the educational program would be fitted in each of these camps?

Mr. MYER. Well, there are two basic reasons. First, the United States prides herself that it is the right of every youngster to have an education, and these youngsters are citizens of the United States. That is number 1.

Number 2 is the fact that we have nearly 25,000 youngsters of school age who must be kept usefully occupied. We are going to hold school 10, 11, and 12 months a year just in order to keep the children busy. Somebody has said that school teachers are cheaper than policemen. Those are the two major reasons.

The basic reason is the fact that these youngsters are citizens of the United States and have the right to continue their education without serious interruption during this evacuation period.

Senator O'MAHONEY. The reason I ask the question, Mr. Myer, is this Executive order under which you are operating reads as follows in part:
The Director of the War Relocation Authority is authorized and directed to formulate and effectuate a program for the removal, from areas designated from time to time by the Secretary of War or appropriate military commander under the authority of Executive Order No. 9066 of February 19, 1942, of the persons or classes of persons designated under such Executive Order, and for their relocation, maintenance, and supervision.
Now, that is the basic authority of W. R. A.

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Then, paragraph 3 says:

In effectuating such program the Director shall have authority to, (a) Accomplish all necessary evacuation...

...and so forth -- I won't read all that because it is not pertinent to this question---

(b) Provide, insofar as feasible and desirable, for the employment of such persons at useful work in industry, commerce, agriculture, or public projects, prescribe the terms and conditions of such public employment, and safeguard the public interest in the private employment of such persons.

Now, a hasty glance at the Executive order would appear to indicate that the two paragraphs which I have read are the basic terms for the policies which you follow out. Am I right?

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, I take it from your answer, that it is your belief, and the belief of your group, that necessary elements in the maintenance and supervision of these evacuees, and the provision of employment at useful work is the maintenance of means of education and means of attending upon these duties.

Mr. MYER. There is no question about it in my mind, Senator.

Now, as regards religious duties, our policy in general is this: The United States Government was founded on the right of religious freedom, the right of worship. We are not providing funds for ministers, but we are providing, insofar as possible, places of worship, using barrack buildings and mess halls. We are, other than Shinto, allowing people to worship as they see fit.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Shinto, you regard as rather political than a religious organization?

Mr. MYER. That is right. If the evacuees so desire, they may invite people from the outside to help conduct services. People who are ministers, other than evacuees, cannot live in the center, but they may come in upon request of the evacuees. That policy was decided on because we have no living quarters for visitors at the centers.

That, in general, gives you our policy regarding religion. We want to provide one building at each center where church services may be conducted and where vestments may be stored. Whether we will be able to do that will depend on whether W. P. B. approves the request for priorities. We have not, as yet, built any church buildings.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How do you determine the character of construction for either the schools or the churches?

Now, as a preliminary, let me say I understand you to testify that the camps themselves were built by the Army engineers.

Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Senator O'MAHONEY. According to the standard and specifications which the Army had laid down for---

Mr. MYER. Theatre of operation---

Senator O'MAHONEY. Theatre of operation construction.

Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do I take it to be rather -- well, this is the least permanent type of construction, is it not?

Mr. MYER. Figured to last about 5 years, temporary type of construction.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now, what is the type of construction for the schools and churches?

Mr. MYER. Much the same type. Because some of the school buildings must be larger, requiring a little more stable type of support, we are building a little sturdier type of structure than the barracks buildings. Our general policy at the present time is not to build additional classrooms for elementary schools so long as barrack space is available for this purpose. We shall use the school buildings for assembly halls and for high school and the other classes, and to provide the necessary shop and laboratories required to meet the minimum standards of the States. We will use barrack buildings for the rest of the schoolrooms insofar as they are available.
Elementary school, Tule Lake, 1943
"Pupils in the “Activities Class“ at the Rim Rock school, enjoy diversified fields of training. The two boys in the background are painting on a mural, which is entirely conceived and executed by themselves. Mrs. Eva Adams is the instructor in this third grade class. (Tule Lake, 02/02/1943)

Senator O'MAHONEY. What degree of permanence are these school buildings?

Mr. MYER. About the same as the others. They are approximately the same type of construction.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You spoke of minimum standards of the State. Is it your policy in each camp to have all of this construction conform to the requirements of the building codes.

Mr. MYER. No; I am talking about standards of instruction necessary to the operation of a certified school.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do those hold true in the common schools?

Mr. MYER. We will have to meet the fire standards, and that sort of thing, of course.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Were those children in the schools taken out of the public schools in the States from which they came?

Mr. MYER. Yes.

Senator O'MAHONEY. I presume that had something to do with your determination to proceed with the educational program.

Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How about the expense of these buildings; what is your standard?

Mr. MYER. Well, the expense will vary somewhat, depending upon the type of structure. The average cost per room, I believe, is about $3,500; the per-pupil-cost average for all centers, I think, is around $99. For other temporary construction that is being carried on under certain forms, we have some costs that run up as high, in one or two centers, as $140 to $150. I believe one of them recently ran up to around $175.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How does that cost compare with the cost of school buildings under normal construction?

Mr. MYER. Well, for example, the per-pupil cost for the economical fire-resistive pre-war building -- we got this figure from the Federal Works Agency, State of Colorado -- was $667 per pupil. The Federal Works Agency national average expense for schools was $591 per pupil.

Senator O'MAHONEY. And your average is what?

Mr. MYER. $98 plus.

Senator O'MAHONEY. The Army engineers built the camps? Who has built these structures?

Mr. MYER. We are building them ourselves, with evacuee labor except two cases where contracts were let.

Senator JOHNSON. Would you mention those two cases, please?

Mr. MYER. I will.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How do you let the contracts?

Mr. MYER. Under bid, as in the case of an ordinary Government contract.
Now, to answer Senator Johnson's question, we let contracts at Granada, Colo., and at Heart Mountain in Wyoming.

Senator O'MAHONEY. What about those two contracts, were they cost plus?

Mr. MYER. No; they were let under competitive bid to contractors.
The Granada contract probably caused more stir than anything that has happened in W. R. A. as yet, as Senator Johnson knows.

Senator JOHNSON. And furthermore, no Japanese evacuee was permitted to do one bit of work on that job.

Mr. MYER. That is not quite correct, Senator.

Senator JOHNSON. And the camp having a great surplus of idle labor and yet it was let by contract to outside firms, and no evacuee was permitted to assist in any way, that is what caused the trouble.

Mr. MYER. Granada is one of the cases where the school construction cost would run around $175 per pupil. The whole matter has been recently reviewed by the W. P. B., as Senator Johnson knows, because he was present at the hearing, and by ourselves, and we have now ordered, in line with our general policy, that the contract be revised so that only the high school is built. If additional space is needed we will build barrack-type of construction for schoolrooms.

I don't know whether you have gotten that information, Senator. It came out yesterday. We are very glad to comply with it.

Senator JOHNSON. You got that from reviewing your---

Mr. MYER. That is right. If I may go back---

Senator HOLMAN. Just a minute, is there any mistake at all in the statement of Senator Johnson about the original expense?

Mr. MYER. Yes; there is this mistake; to this degree, while it is our policy not to encourage employment of evacuees generally at prevailing wages while living on the projects, some of them were so employed at Granada.

Senator HOLMAN. The policy of the administration was not to use the available labor in camps even under skilled tradesmen foremanship?

Mr. MYER. In 2 of the 10 centers the contract was let to contractors. In the 8 others evacuees are doing the construction. Let me tell you why we made Labor volunteers, Heart Mountain, 1942this exception. It was our original intention to use only evacuee labor in building schools and other structures not provided by the Army. Along about the middle of the summer, however, it became evident that there was a great shortage of agricultural labor in the West, and we undertook a large recruitment campaign. By fall, 10,000 evacuees were working in sugar beet and other harvest work. A large proportion of people went out on that type of work from these 2 centers, so it was decided in order to have the schools ready by late fall, to build them under contract. [PHOTO: "Husky young evacuees from Los Angeles volunteer and are registered at the Heart Mountain Relocation Center to top beets in the fields of Wyoming, Montana and Colorado. A total of 2,700 volunteers left the relocation center in Colorado and Wyoming to help relieve a serious beet labor shortage." (09/27/1942)]

Senator JOHNSON. When was the contract let, Mr. Myer?

Mr. MYER. About October, as I remember it.

Senator JOHNSON. The farming seasonal occupation was about at an end.

Mr. MYER. Let me finish my story.

Senator JOHNSON. Put in some facts along with your story.

Mr. MYER. At the time we made the contract, it appeared that we were not going to have available labor in the center to get that job done in any reasonable length of time. By the time we got the W. P. B. clearance, however---

Senator HOLMAN. Tell about the labor. What kind of labor would be available?

Mr. MYER. Any kind of manpower that was able to use a hammer and saw. At the Granada center where there was a population of about 6,500 people at the time, about 1,100 were out in the sugar-beet fields, and in addition to that, approximately 3,000 people were employed in the necessary service at the project. There was not available labor at that stage of the game, from early fall to late fall, to do this kind of a job. We were so short of housing space, people crowded 7, 8, and 10 in an apartment built for 5. Now, letting of the contract lagged until -- I don't know the exact date; I will be glad to supply it for the record. Now, I admit, Senator Johnson, that it was---

Senator JOHNSON. Some time in November, wasn't it?

Mr. MYER. I believe so. I will say to this committee again that the letting of a contract in that case was a mistake. We did not anticipate at the time we let it, it would cause such a furore. I say that because it has probably hurt public relations more than anything else in Colorado. If we had not been bound by contract we would have gone back to the original program because we do have the people available now to work on it.

Senator CHANDLER. Do you think we can explain to the people that this was a mistake?

Mr. MYER. I don't know. They didn't understand the circumstances, the fact that there was this lag, the fact that it was pending from the last of September or October, that it was done to meet Colorado's farm labor needs.

Senator JOHNSON. What about the barring of evacuee labor and the hiring of outside labor? Do you think that this policy is a wise policy?

Mr. MYER. Among the worst problems we have had are matters relating to wages and labor policies at the centers. You cannot imagine a more intricate situation to start with, the problems relating to private industry and prevailing wages.

We also provided for deductions from their wages for subsistence, and we found that we could not do it, that it was an administrative impossibility. So some weeks ago I decided that just as soon as the present commitments were completed, there will be no wages paid to evacuees in relocation centers other than $12, $16, or $19 a month, or whatever the figure Congress sets up in our budget.

Senator HOLMAN. When you said "prevailing wages" a few minutes ago, did you mean prevailing wages inside the camp of evacuees, or the prevailing wages outside?

Mr. MYER. No, outside.

Senator HOLMAN. You did pay these evacuees mechanics' wages prevailing outside?

Mr. MYER. We never have paid them prevailing wages. The people who hired them paid these wages -- the contractors in order to get their job done. We made exceptions in one or two cases.

Senator HOLMAN. The thought that has occurred to me is competition of these projects with qualified skills of all kinds when in domestic work there is a shortage of labor on account of war conditions. Throughout the whole country we start to call in in these areas skills to get labor, and we are creating an acute situation, and making the situation more acute than it would be.

Mr. MYER. That is quite correct.

Senator O'MAHONEY. There was a question I asked which I am not sure you answered, and that is, namely, were any of these contracts awarded on the cost-plus basis?

Mr. MYER. They were not, Senator.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Were they awarded on competitive bidding?

Mr. MYER. They were awarded on competitive bidding, and on the Granada contract there were nine bids, and that figure I gave was the lowest bid of the nine.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You have spoken about the Granada contract.

Mr. MYER. I said nine bids. Nine bids were submitted, I am sorry.

Senator CHANDLER. I understand.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You said the Heart Mountain project was in the same category.

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Do you care to say anything about the Heart Mountain?

Mr. MYER. All I care to say about the Heart Mountain contract is that it was contracted about the same time; it was in the same region at that time, as you know, under the Denver office. In line with the general policy, I have instructed Mr. Robertson, who is the director there, to make a study of the situation to be sure that we utilize all available buildings for classrooms, and if necessary renegotiate the contract. If we later on need additional barrack buildings we will build them at that time rather than build them now in anticipation. That is the same policy as at Granada, except that I have not asked that the contract be renegotiated until we get all of the facts.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Was the contract let?

Mr. MYER. The contract was let.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Was the work started under it?

Mr. MYER. Oh, yes; it is about 15 percent built. They are building the high school first.

Senator O'MAHONEY. When was it started?

Mr. MYER. I will have to give you the date on that, Senator; I am not sure.

Senator JOHNSON. What was the amount of that contract?

Mr. MYER. $348,357.

Senator CHANDLER. Will you put the amounts of both of those contracts in the record.

Mr. MYER. I will be glad to.

NOTE. -- The contract for the schools at Granada was let at $308,000.

Senator CHANDLER. Now, gentlemen, we will recess and return after lunch at 2:30.

(Whereupon, at 1:05 p. m., the hearing adjourned until 2:30 p. m. of this date.)

The hearing was resumed at 2:45 p. m.

Senator WALLGREN. The meeting will come to order.

Mr. Myer, if you wish to continue along from where you left off this noon, you may do so.

Mr. MYER. Senator Wallgren, I wonder if I might take about 15 or 20 minutes to summarize the general policies and problems in different fields briefly for the record. I will leave to you as to how you want me to speak. I think there were one or two points that had been raised that I hadn't finished, but I am not sure what they were.

Senator WALLGREN. You may proceed, but I think we may want to interrupt you from time to time with questions.

Mr. MYER. All right. I will do my best.

First I would like to make a couple of corrections in the record of this morning. In my statement regarding the incident at Manzanar I stated Tayama was on the police force. I am sorry; that was not true. I want the record to show that at that point.

It was indicated that there was a demonstration on December 7. Everything on December 7 was as quiet as it could be, because the incident was all over at that time.

I would like to present to the committee briefly some of the general assumptions that the War Relocation Authority must make in administering this program. First, we are having to assume that the people with whom we are dealing, excepting for those who request repatriation and those who may be discovered to be subversive, are to continue to live in the United States, both aliens and citizens. We do not look upon the relocation centers, as seems to be generally accepted by the public, as internment camps or concentration camps. They are centers that were established as places to provide reasonably minimum living until the evacuees could get relocated in other areas of the country. [lined in margin]

In view of the fact that the voluntary relocation program, which was started in March, could not meet the problem, it was early recognized that it would take time to get them realigned in other work; that is why the relocation centers were built. We assume, furthermore, that it is important in these times that manpower be utilized in its most effective manner.

There are approximately 40,000 -- something over 40,000 -- people in these centers of the age and ability to make a contribution to the manpower program. Under those conditions we are trying to shape our program so as to provide reasonable minimum subsistence, reasonable government, the opportunity for people to keep reasonably busy and to keep themselves occupied both mentally and physically. And we are hoping to continue to get the collaboration of the intelligence agencies and the other agencies in Government to make a separation as fast as we can of those people who are definitely pro-Japanese and who do not want to cooperate with this Government.

Senator WALLGREN. Right at that point, you have had about 8 months to do that now.

Mr. MYER. I'm sorry; that is unfortunately not true. We received the last of the west coast evacuees in the relocation centers about the 1st of November.

Senator WALLGREN. When did you get the first of them?

Mr. MYER. The first of them were turned over to us late in May.

Senator WALLGREN. You knew these people were coming. You knew you were going to have to take care of them. Why weren't plans being formulated at that time, so that by now you would be really operating?

Mr. MYER. We are operating, Senator. We formulated plans as fast as we could. Let me point out that the Executive order was signed March 19, 1942, and Mr. Eisenhower was appointed Director. An organization had to be built from top to bottom to do this job. It takes time to build and train an organization. The first job that we had to do was to get these people settled in uncompleted centers. We did not have experience, neither did anyone else, that would tell us exactly what we should do in the way of segregation and in the development of a security program. Nothing like it ever existed. So on the basis of experience gained in these first three or four centers in June, July, and August, and on the basis of the best information we can get as we got our key staff people together, on the basis of the help we could get from the Office of Naval Intelligence, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Army and their experience, we were able to formulate certain basic policies no earlier than August.

I pointed out this morning that unfortunately many of those policies were not formulated on a national basis until around August 24 or 25 or September 1. We had to operate for a while to see what the pattern should be. Consequently many of these centers had to operate off the cuff and trust that nothing serious would occur until we gained experience, until we could get project staffs together and trained and until we could formulate our programs.

In the interim period we were trying to get materials to complete our construction so that it was almost the middle of August or the 1st of September before some general policy problems were settled.

Now, going back---

Senator HOLMAN. Pardon me just a moment. Have you a statement of what that general policy is? If I that may be put in the record, if it isn't too long---

Mr. MYER. There it is.

Senator HOLMAN. I guess it's too long.

Mr. MYER. All of those statements are rules and regulations that had to be formulated since last March 19.

Senator HOLMAN. You mean there is no duplication, there is just one succession, all those rules and regulations for the conduct of these people?

Mr. MYER. Not for the conduct of these people; for the conduct of our administrative people in handling the problems of relocation centers and for handling the program the War Relocation Authority has been concerned with. It has to do with such things as feeding operations, housing, property management, educational programs, government, community services.

Senator HOLMAN. It looks awfully complicated to me.

Mr. MYER. It is complicated, Senator.

Senator HOLMAN. Is it necessarily so?

Mr. MYER. Well, I will have to leave that to the judgment of the committee. I give you the facts as best I can, and let you judge.

It has been my experience that any program of the Government requires an organized body of rules. Particularly this program, which is little understood by the public in general and about which there is a great deal of emotion, has to have more rules and regulations than most other programs. Let me give you an example of that. There is not in effect today any rationing that I know of regarding meats. Because of the many rumors and letters that have gone around the country, we have had to ration meats rather strictly, so much meat for each person per center per week, simply to show that we have a definite policy on it. We have had to try to anticipate the Government's policy. [lined in margin with word "good!"]

We have had under consideration for months the problem as to how you could segregate people. To get that job done we shall have to build a new center because there was no place for them to go except under our leave procedures, after thorough investigation, and that is a slow process.

We are not yet through constructing the centers we have, and to start to build more is an almost impossible task today, with the material and labor shortage situation as it is.

There are grave legal problems involved in taking citizens and arbitrarily saying, "You go to jail" without having charges to file. We do not have the records of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, we didn't have at our command at that time records of the O. N. I. or of the Army Intelligence. We are getting many of those today to check against our own records.

Now, as fast as we get these records and as fast as we can check with our own records we shall find people who belong in internment camps or elsewhere and we are going to put them there. We have a definite policy now well formulated, but it took weeks to do it.

Senator WALLGREN. Explain that internment camp to us, please.

Mr. MYER. There are three types of centers where Japanese and other aliens are located. There is a great deal of confusion about them, and I am glad you asked the question, Senator. The W. R. A. centers are relocation centers and are in no sense internment camps. The Immigration Service has maintained for some years what are called detention camps. Those are the camps in which, generally, you will find people who have broken immigration laws, who have come into the country illegally, or aliens who have been arrested and held for further hearing and are detained until the hearing boards can pass judgment as to whether they should go to internment camps. The Department of Justice is running the detention camps. Once it is determined that aliens are definitely disloyal, they are interned for the duration in internment camps run by the Army.

There are approximately 2,000 people of Japanese descent interned at the present time. I can't give you the exact figure, but we can get that figure later. There were nearly 5,000 -- between 4,500 and 5,000 --- aliens who were detained at detention camps to begin with. There have been returned to the relocation centers from detention camps since we started our relocation centers nearly 1,400 people who were detained, examined, and freed on parole, who came to our centers to live because there was no place else for them to go.

Senator WALLGREN. Where are these detention camps located?

Mr. MYER. I know where some of them are, Senator, but I would have to ask the Justice Department to give us a list of them.

Senator WALLGREN. Those in which you have placed Japanese.

Mr. MYER. We don't have any detention camps.

Senator WALLGREN. I thought you had sent some of your evacuees into them.

Mr. MYER. When they go there, they are taken over by the Justice Department.

Senator WALLGREN. And you have sent a very small number up to now to those camps?

Mr. MYER. There were approximately, as I understand it, between 4,700 and 4,800 out of the whole population picked up.

Senator WALLGREN. Of the evacuees?

Mr. MYER. At the time of the evacuation or immediately before or after. Approximately 2,000 of those are in internment camps today. Some of them are still in detention camps waiting for their hearings. About 1,400 of them were returned to relocation centers. That gets it straight. There are those three types of centers.

Now, I would like to make a further point. With this population, as was true with the Italians and Germans and other aliens, those that were considered dangerous were picked up by the F. B. I., most of them before or at the time of the evacuation, and sent to detention camps, many of them on to internment camps. There have been quite a number, and I can't give you the number, that have been taken out of relocation centers since evacuation by the F. B. I. and interned, and there are a number now under consideration for internment from Manzanar and other places where we have had situations develop.

We are now working very closely with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with the Office of Naval Intelligence, and with the Army Intelligence in cross-checking our records. The chances are there will be additional people who will go to internment camps or detention camps.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How do you decide among the evacuees which go to internment camps and which to detention camps? What is the process of trial and conviction?

Mr. MYER. Well, all are taken to detention camps, first, and they are held there until---

Senator O'MAHONEY. How are they taken there?

Mr. MYER. By the F. B. I.

Senator WALLGREN. When you say "all of them" you don't mean all of the evacuees.

Mr. MYER. All of those that go to detention or internment camps, upon arrest by the F. B. I. are taken to detention camps.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Are they then taken out of the jurisdiction of the relocation camp?

Mr. MYER. Yes, sir; that is right.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Are they taken out of the county or the State?

Mr. MYER. Yes, sir.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Some of these people are citizens.

Mr. MYER. No; only aliens are incarcerated in a detention camp or an internment camp. Only aliens can be interned, without going to the courts.

Now, citizens may be if they are proven subversive on being put through the court procedure, but only through that process.

We have an arrangement with the Justice Department at the present time under which they will detain any aliens whom our records indicate are dangerous or upsetting the administration at the centers. We have a very close working relationship there.

It has taken time to develop that. We couldn't assume, to begin with, that these people were all bad. And we certainly haven't assumed that they are all good, because they aren't.

Senator WALLGREN. Would you explain your policy so far as leave of absence is concerned?

Mr. MYER. Yes; I will be glad to.

I hope it is clear that the program, if I may say this before I go to the leave of absence, that has to do with the selection of aliens as well as other subversives, is in the hands of the intelligence agencies rather than in our hands, other than that they have said to us, "If you have individuals which your records show are aliens that are bad, we will take them now," and that has been a development within the last few weeks.

Senator WALLGREN. When you mention these Intelligence agencies, whom do you refer to?

Mr. MYER. Federal Bureau of Investigation, Naval Intelligence, and the Army Intelligence G-2 Branch. They are the only agencies that I know of that have any records excepting the local police agencies back home, and we check those when we need to. We are now getting very helpful cooperation from all those agencies.

On the leave policy, our policy is about this: Anyone may make an application for leave from the centers, provided they have a place to go and can take care of themselves, and provided further that the place they want to go to has been checked to find whether or not they will be accepted without reaction.

Third, we check each record of each applicant with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the other Intelligence agencies, and we make our own checks, including checks back to the community from where they came, as a basis for determining whether they are sound from the standpoint of internal security; and fourth, each person who leaves a center must keep us informed regarding his address if a move is to be made. That is required of aliens under the law. It is not required of citizens, but we are making the requirement because we think it is essential and practical.

Senator WALLGREN. You are just doing that on your own?

Mr. MYER. No, sir. The policy was checked with the Justice Department, and I have a letter from Attorney General Biddle, received before I signed those regulations. It was endorsed by them as the Department of Government responsible for the internal security of the country. The policy has been endorsed and approved by the Manpower Commission from the standpoint of the need for manpower. It was approved by the Army, and we are working very closely with Naval Intelligence in connection with the whole program.

Senator WALLGREN. You know, a Jap would be an awfully good dog right up to the point that he can pull something. Naturally he is going to be a very, very obedient prisoner or evacuee. He will be just as nice as he possibly can be in order to get an opportunity to do that job that he wants to do for his country. The boys have had a lot of experience over in the Philippines. They are having them right now over in the Solomon Islands. They will use every trick in the world in order to throw you off your guard, and then they will stab you in the back, and we had an experience at Pearl Harbor that ought to really be a lesson to anyone, and yet we are going to still continue to grant them leaves of absence, where they might be able to go out some place and blow up maybe Coulee Dam or Bonneville, or maybe some large munitions plant. I think we are taking a chance, and I don't think we should take chances right at this particular stage of the game.

Senator O'MAHONEY. How many leaves of absence were granted for farm labor during the past -- well, since you are in charge?

Mr. MYER. Approximately 9,800, Senator, not all since I was director, because some of them were granted last May.

Senator O'MAHONEY. From whom did those requests come?

Mr. MYER. Those requests for labor? They came from the farmers and the people who wanted to employ them, and in many cases from local officers of the Government and others who felt it essential that they have the labor. On that point, I would like to make this comment. Before the relocation centers, as such, were established there was a meeting held in Salt Lake City on April 7 with the governors of all the Western States, in which Mr. Eisenhower and Colonel Bendetsen raised the question -- whether these people could be relocated in small groups throughout the Intermountain States and throughout the rest of the West and other parts of the country, where they might provide such labor without establishing centers of this type. The answer was unanimously no. One governor said that that wasn't a policy for him to decide, but all the other governors indicated at that time that they didn't want them in their States, and if they did come in, they would have to come in under soldier guard.

At the time I came on the job, public sentiment had so swung in that area that before the middle of September every one of the Governors, and understand I am not criticizing the Governors, went on record as saying that they would be responsible insofar as possible to maintain law and order to get them into those States. Great pressure was exerted from the middle of August to the middle of November to get additional labor from these centers out into the western States.

Senator WALLGREN. I think that would be all right if they operated there under guard.

Mr. MYER. The Army determined early in the game that they couldn't guard people all over the country, so it was left to the local authorities to make whatever arrangements were necessary. I might say that these people went out from both relocation and assembly centers. At that time they went out with no investigation whatsoever, other than by those who wanted to recruit them. Of course none of them was allowed to return to evacuated territory.

Senator GURNEY. May I ask, Mr. Myer, when these groups go out into places to work, is there any official of the city, county or State governments who reports their arrival and checks with you periodically as to whether they are there on the job yet, or have left?

Mr. MYER. Yes. We are checking continually with those officials.

Senator GURNEY. You check, but is there any order sent out to keep you notified weekly or monthly as to whether they are there or not?

Mr. MYER. That is correct. We do have a regular check between our field men and the local authorities; and of course where there are aliens involved, they are required to report to the United States district attorney whenever they move.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Didn't the local authorities, through the Governors, assume some responsibility for the control of evacuees or assigned labor?

Mr. MYER. Yes. Our policy on group labor was this: No one is released from assembly centers or relocation centers to go out on group labor except under three general conditions; first, that the Employment Service must certify that the labor is necessary, so that they are not competing with local labor; secondly, that there had to be written applications from the people who wanted to employ labor as a basis for a contract with the evacuee; and third, that we have written assurances from the Governors of the States and the local authorities that they would be responsible for the maintaining of law and order in communities which they moved into and general responsibility for their guarding in that territory. That policy was followed to the letter.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Now you had about 10,000 who were sent out?

Mr. MYER. About 9,800 were sent out.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Did you have any trouble?

Mr. MYER. We had a few incidents that developed here and there but an amazingly small number when you consider the possibility.

Senator WALLGREN. "When you consider the possibilities" is a very important phrase.

Mr. MYER. When I considered the emotion that exists among the population I expected a great deal more trouble than developed. I sat for weeks on an uneasy seat, afraid that somebody would get killed in fights. Two incidents have come to my attention, the only ones I know about, Senator. In one instance a boy walked into a restaurant one day and saw a Japanese-American boy sitting on a stool; he walked up and knocked him over the head and knocked him out. The other incident occurred recently in a railroad station in Denver, when four or five of the evacuees who were on their way back to Poston evidently indulged in too many beers. One of them was a little bit intoxicated. They ran into a group of soldier boys, and some words were exchanged, a fight ensued, and the Japanese boys got the worst of it. Order was quickly restored and they were taken back to the center.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Were there any incidents involving loyalty?

Mr. MYER. None that I know of. I have heard of no case of sabotage. I don't know of any espionage. Nothing of that order has come to my attention.

Senator GURNEY. Mr. Myer, if you can, out of the 9,800 who left for different work jobs, how many have turned up missing? How many, out of that number?

Mr. MYER. We are making a final check on that now, Senator. We had one case in the middle of summer when one of the men went to Chicago. He was brought back. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a small group that are going to be hard to locate at the moment. We are making a recheck with all of the local authorities. There are still approximately 2,000 people who went out on group leave who have not returned to centers. We are getting our records in shape to get a final recap on those.

Senator O'MAHONEY. You mean there are 2,000 that you don't know where they are?

Mr. MYER. We know in what counties they are, but if we had to lay our fingers on every individual at the moment, I am not sure we could. They went into certain counties and certain areas.

Senator WALLGREN. And they are just free to go as they please?

Mr. MYER. No; within certain areas.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Are they overdue? Of these 2,000, how many are overdue who ought to be back in their relocation centers?

Mr. MYER. There was no time limit put on them.

Senator O'MAHONEY. When you say that 2,000 have not returned, you don't mean to give the committee the thought that they ought to be back and are not?

Mr. MYER. That is correct. I am glad you brought that up. It is not a matter of their being A. W. O. L. It is a matter of their continuing to work in those areas where they are allowed to go.

Senator O'MAHONEY. The question Senator Gurney was asking had to do with A. W. O. L.

Mr. MYER. I don't know of any cases of A. W. O. L.

Senator WALLGREN. I don't see how you know whether they are A. W. O. L. or not if they haven't reported.

Mr. MYER. At any particular moment it would be hard to have a census of all the folks available. There will be some A. W. O. L. people, of course.

Senator GURNEY. That was the point I was trying to make a little bit back. I made the remark that somebody in authority that requested these evacuees in the first place to do work should be required to report regularly to the concentration camps, the relocation points.

Mr. MYER. That's right.

Senator GURNEY. I don't know if it is or not -- report regularly that that man or woman is there. I understand there are quite a few women out working as domestics.

Mr. MYER. Not under the group leave procedure. There are a few.

Senator GURNEY. But on individual leave, because I do know a few places where they are using domestic help.

Mr. MYER. They are required to report. We are asking the employers to report any moves that are made.

Senator GURNEY. I understand -- any moves that are made; but I think that when we have a parolee in our State institutions they are paroled to a certain individual, and this parolee has to report to that individual regularly so that we can keep track of what he is doing.

Mr. MYER. I am afraid you misunderstand me, Senator. These are not parolees, these are people---

Senator GURNEY. They had better be made parolees, in my opinion.

Mr. MYER. That is different.

Senator GURNEY. Because the order in the first place pulled them out of their homes into a relocation point.

Mr. MYER. No; you are not quite clear on that.

Senator GURNEY. Yes, I am. They pulled them out of their homes and pulled them out of strategic places.

Mr. MYER. That is right; but the order did not provide, in the first place, that they go into relocation camps.

Senator GURNEY. Well, you have 106,000 in relocation camps.

Mr. MYER. About that.

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