There's Revelation and then there's Revelation

How can it be all right with some if the devil talks to you, but wrong if you're hearing from Jesus?

by Rev. David Dorpat

It was back in the early ’70’s when a lot of students from Concordia College, Seward, Nebraska, were coming to weekly prayer and praise meetings in our home. We had just heard a teaching that just as every member of the human body has a vital function, so every member of Christ’s body (the Church) is meant to have a vital function, a place of service, or ministry, if you will. My dear wife, Donnie, while ironing, asked the Lord what her ministry was. She felt that He said in a still, small voice, "peace."

"Peace?" she thought to herself. "I’ve never heard of that as a ministry. Or does God mean that I should have peace about this?" She put her iron down, reached for her Bible and proceeded to do what she sometimes did. (Let the reader know that I don’t recommend this at all.) She opened it up at random and the first verse her eye landed upon had the word "peace" in it. She did it again - "peace!" - and again -" peace!" The fourth time she opened up to Psalm 122:6-8, "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! ‘May they prosper who love you! Peace be within your walls, and security within your towers!’ For my brethren and companions’ sake I will say, ‘Peace be within you.’" Peace, three times in three verses!

The doorbell rang. It was a student from the college. She was troubled and wanted to talk. Donnie then invited her in, listened to her, counseled her and prayed with her. As the student was leaving, she turned to Donnie and said "Thank you, Mrs. Dorpat, I have such peace!"

The doorbell rang again. It was another student from the college. She too was troubled and wanted to talk. Donnie invited her in, listened to her, counseled her and prayed with her. As the student was leaving, she turned to Donnie and said, "Thank you, I have such peace!"

At the end of our prayer and praise meeting that week most of those who had been coming regularly stayed after as they usually did for munchies, fellowship and further prayer. If you have been involved in a good small ministry/worship/prayer group you know how close the love and fellowship in such a group can be. We all were very close. That evening a few of them shared an experience they had that week. They were fellowshipping together in one of the dormitory rooms and were talking about the brothers and sisters and they began to liken each of them to a Biblical character. It all started in fun but turned into an exciting time filled with the manifest presence of God. Before the day was over they had given each of the members of this core group a Biblical name. That evening they shared them. "John is like a Jeremiah...Wayne is Timothy...Elaine is a Martha," etc. When they came to Donnie they changed the pattern. They said they couldn’t think of a Biblical person’s name but rather felt her name should be (you guessed it)"Peace!!!"

It seemed apparent to Donnie and to me that God had spoken. Her place in the body was to be a sharer of the peace of the Lord. Subsequent years of ministry have confirmed the accuracy of that revelation.

God had spoken? Revelation? How could that be? What about the Lutheran Confessions which say that "God will not deal with us except through His external Word and Sacraments. Whatever is attributed to the Spirit apart from such Word and Sacrament is of the Devil" (SA, Part III, Article VIII, Tappert, Page 313)? Don’t these and other Confessional passages clearly indicate that all such revelations, visions or dreams from God are contrary to the Reformation "Sola Scriptura" principle? God spoke that way in Bible times but today he speaks through the Scriptures alone. All my life I believed exactly that until I discovered from the Scriptures themselves, from the Lutheran Confessions and from personal experience that the great Reformation principle, Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), did not, in effect, silence God after the first century.

There are four main insights that changed my mind:

1. The context of the quotations from the Lutheran Confessions clearly indicate that the issue with the authors is receiving the Holy Spirit and salvation and submission to the authority of Scriptures, not subjective guidance and revelation. The apostolic church lived under the same strictures and promises relating to the external word as does today’s church and vice versa. (See article "Would Luther Join RIM." Nov. ’95 RIM Report, for a more extensive treatment of this point.)

2. A great array of orthodox Lutheran theologians from Luther through Quenstedt, Pieper, P.E. Kretzman, and William Arndt to today’s LCMS Commission on Theology and Church Relations agree that there is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that God may not give the same gifts today as in former centuries (How could they agree to that if the Confessions teach that all revelation ceased once the Scriptures were written?). In fact, Doctors Victor Bartling and Martin H. Franzman, while professors at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, eloquently stated today’s RIM position in a letter to Synodical President Oliver Harms, dated May 31, 1966. They held a consultation with Pastor Don Pfotenhauer, a RIM founder, concerning his experiences with the Spirit and His gifts. Their letter said that they concentrated on the theological issue involved, that is, "The validity and use of Spiritual charismata, particularly but not exclusively prophecy and glossolalia, in their relationship to the authority of Scriptures and the witness of the Lutheran Confessions." In other words, they dealt with the issue that most would agree is the perceived "main rub" between the LCMS and RIM. Their proclamation of Pfotenhauer’s orthodoxy could well be applied to RIM:

"Our consultation has revealed.... 3. That Pastor Pfotenhauer never has held and does not now hold the view that persons may "possess the Spirit without and before the word;" (Smalcald Article III) 4. That Pastor Pfotenhauer is opposed to the view that "Beside the Word of God as given to us in the Holy Scriptures, additional revelations also become directives for the doctrine and life of the church;" that in his view it is the function of the gift of prophecy to focus the once-for-all revelation given in the Scriptures upon a particular situation confronting the church and that this prophetic wit-ness is to be tested by the Scriptures."

3. That brings us to the insight that provides the title to this article: "There’s Revelation and then there’s Revelation." We in RIM wish to be absolutely submissive to the authority of the Scriptures. We firmly believe and teach that the Scriptures are infallible. They are the standard by which all other directives, including the revelatory gifts of the Spirit, are to be judged. There’s revelation and then there’s revelation. There’s the "once-for all" (Jude 3) revelation of the Scripture which "delivered to the saints" the Christian Faith and all its doctrines. And then there’s the indwelling Holy Spirit and His gifts which do not bring new doctrine but rather apply the truths of the faith to everyday situations, provide providential guidance, and thus bring "upbuilding and encouragement and consolation" (1 Cor. 14:3).

It is significant to note that the truth of the objective nature of the Word of God which alone is authoritative and the subjective gifts that need testing and confirmation is 2000 years old. The early church recognized the subjective nature of the gifts of the Spirit. They knew that the Scriptures were infallible but the gifts needed testing. St. Paul says in 1 Cor. 13 that "our prophecy is imperfect" and "we see in a mirror dimly." He was obviously not speaking of the Scriptures. He was talking about the gifts in the life of the church of that day. Prophecy was and is to be tested, not despised, but tested (1 Thess. 5), and we are to hold on to prophecy that is good, that passes the test. Prophets are to submit what they say to other prophets in the body that it might be weighed and judged (1 Cor. 14).

There are other tests: 1. Does the one who claims to be moved by the Spirit lift up Jesus as Savior and Lord (1 Jn. 4:1-3, Jn. 15:26, 16:14, Rev. 19:10)? 2. Is there good fruit (Matt. 7:15-16)? 3. Is there power to witness (Acts 1:8)? 4. Is the ultimate result freedom (Rom. 8:15, 2 Cor. 3:17)?

Knowing the subjective nature of the gifts of the Spirit, the early church tested the spirits. That’s how they determined their validity. They also knew that the gifts were real and so they warned against resisting or quenching the Spirit. It is no different today. We need to do both — test the spirits and acknowledge the reality of the gifts that pass the test lest we be guilty of resisting what God is doing.

4. I’ve already shared about number four at the beginning of this article. It’s our wonderful, daily experience of the power, presence and guidance of the blessed Holy Spirit. Donnie’s experience about her ministry of peace is not an isolated one. We continually marvel at the many times we see the Spirit moving among us with His miraculous, revelatory gifts. If you have a relationship with someone, the two of you communicate. I talk to Jesus and He talks to me. The devil talks to me too. He puts all sorts of temptations into my mind. I’m glad I can talk to Jesus about them and find in Him and in His Word the strength to overcome. It has become incongruous to me that it’s theologically all right with some if the devil talks to you, but not if you’re hearing from Jesus. That could kick you out of the ministry in the LCMS like Don Pfotenhauer was in spite of the good report from the theologians. But that’s O.K. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. It’s O.K. for Don. He has an extensive and powerful ministry. It is Missouri that is losing out.

Rev. David M. Dorpat
20435 1st Pl.S.
Des Moines, WA 98198



Witness Outreach

Chris Arndt

During the last three years, I have been involved with leading Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW's) to Christ over the Internet. I direct a web site ministry called Witness Outreach. Leading Jehovah’s Witnesses out of the Watchtower Society and to Christ is a very slow process that often takes years.

The first step in working with Jehovah’s Wit-nesses is to gain trust. This is hard to do when they are taught that anyone with contradictory views towards the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTBS) is of the devil. When trust is obtained, you then gradually ask thought provoking questions. The Watchtower Society has discouraged its members from critical thinking. It has published articles warning members against in-dependent thinking. It has even discouraged members from going on to higher education since it preaches that the end is so near.

Mim, an ex Jehovah’s Witness writes: "What the web sites have done for me is SHOW me once and for all the holes and discrepancies in the WTBS doctrine and teachings. I encourage anyone who is questioning the organization and its teachings to REALLY look into just what is being taught."

Critical thinking will eventually cause the Witness to lose faith in his religion. The trust and worship of a Jehovah’s Witness is directed to a man-made organization.

As soon as the Witness doubts that the WTBS is the channel that God uses, that person needs comfort and counsel. Countless numbers of ex JW’s speak of their Watchtower experience as spiritually abusive and equivalent to spiritual rape. Anger, intense shame and embarrassment are very common feelings among individuals who have made an exit from this destructive cult. Ex-cultists are extremely wary of people who want to share their faith with them. They feel as if they might be abused a second time. So, this is where prayer, time, comfort and compassion for the spiritually abused person come into play.

All too often enthusiastic Christians do more harm than good by forcing the Good News on an ex Jehovah’s Witness. This can actually push such a person further back spiritually. We must wait on God’s time in leading a former Jehovah’s Witness to Christ. Sadly, not all become Christians. Many become atheists, not wanting anything more to do with religion. One person who came out of the Watchtower Society is in a state of limbo. She wishes she had never discovered the hypocrisy and lies. She misses her friends and family. She knows she can never see or talk to them again. It is this dread and pain that prompt Jehovah’s Witnesses to have an extremely high rate of suicide and mental ill-ness.

By God’s grace, many come out of the cult and find freedom and new life in Christ. And some become active in a ministry of exposing the Watchtower.

One ex Jehovah’s Witness who found freedom says: "I have to say I do not think I would have made it through this without your daily posts that kept me going some of those days. I was really confused and didn’t know where to turn. The e-mail letters of encouragement meant the world to me, I hope that this group will always be around to help ones like me, there are so many of us out there hurt and wounded." Another said: "My departure from the Watchtower Society was largely the direct result of my discussions on the internet."

There are a number of us who work together in this internet ministry. We work as a team, each having a different role in the life of a Witness. When a Witness comes to know Christ as his or her Savior, we all share in the joy.

In every locality there is a need for people to give warning to their neighbors concerning the destructive nature of the Watch-tower. Many people in America think the JW's are simply overzealous Christians. Little do they know that the cult is out to snatch the unwary. If you are interested in this ministry, you are encouraged to con-tact Witness Outreach. We have informative tracts if you would like to go door to door in your neighborhood. We have other information to help you in witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses. You can contact Wit-ness Outreach on the web at: http://www.witness-outreach.org/ or you may write Witness Outreach, PO Box 296,Wallkill, NY 12589.

(Chris lives with his wife, Andrea, in Wallkill, New York, just a few miles from a major headquarters facility for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Pine Bush, NY). Chris is a member of Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church, Walden, New York. He is a high school teacher and along with Andrea serves Trinity Lutheran as Sunday School Superintendent.)