Ban Religious Movies?

 21 June 2003


There is a very long thread at the Internet Movie Database message board concerning Mel Gibson's new film The Passion:

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0335345/board/nest/1522693

The reason I looked at this thread was that the originating post had a very provocative subject line: "Religious Films Should Be Banned!!" Further down the thread, the poster clarifies his original position: "All films that are made for the sole purpose of promoting religious faith over reasoned faith should be banned." This is perhaps the shape of things to come. If that is true, I can only thank God that I am no longer young, and am unlikely to live to see the full imposition of the tyranny this poster has in mind. It is unlikely that any film made "for the sole purpose of promoting" anything--religion, quantum mechanics, gun control, free enterprise, Esperanto, or Coca-Cola--is likely to attract much of an audience, but I doubt that the writer meant "for the sole purpose," but rather "having as an explicit purpose." Assuming this reinterpretation, there were a fair number of respondents who agreed with the writer, and a fair number who disagreed.

Most of the thread, however, does not involve either the aesthetics of film or the question of free expression. Most of the postings involve controversy about religious belief, in particular, belief in God. It touches on the origins of the universe, the laws of thermodynamics, the theory of intelligent design, the historic behavior of Christians and Muslims, the authorship of the Bible, standards of sexual morality taught by Christian churches, and numerous byways derived from these. Since most people who post to Internet message boards are young, I assume that most of the posters are relatively young people (relative to me, that isn't hard). Many of them cannot spell, but a few are not entirely uninformed historically. There are atheists, former atheists who have converted to Christianity, Christians who have become atheists. There are Catholics who were once Fundamentalists and Fundamentalists who were once Catholics. There appear to be some Muslims as well. There are people who attack Christianity because it resembles Islam, and there are those who attack Islam because it resembles Christianity. One ambitious poster rather ably summarized St. Thomas Aquinas's arguments for the existence of God, bringing down upon himself the scorn of the atheists. The names of Einstein, Voltaire, and Stephen Hawking came up; so did the name and possible influence of Satan.

As far as I can tell (I have not read every word of every post; I do not have that much patience), the thread contains three major points of attack on monotheism in general and Christianity in particular. The first is an attack on the existence of God, from a claimed scientific perspective; the second is an attack on Christian moral teaching in the area of sexuality; and the third an attack on religion in general and Christianity (and Islam, in some cases) in particular as having been the occasion of mortal conflict among human beings. The lines of defense to the first centered on the argument from design, one line of argument invoking the first law of thermodynamics to show that the universe as a whole required some outside source. Dr. Hawking was cited to the contrary as believing that something could have arisen out of nothing, The second line of attack received less attention, because both the attackers and defenders of religion realized that it could not, as religious teaching, be defended without first upholding the defense to the first argument. The third was the occasion of some mutual accusations between Christian and Muslim camps, but the principal answer to the atheists on this count was that Christians (who got the brunt of the assault) were no worse than anyone else.

Put together, the arguments add up to an attack on religion in general and Christianity in particular that goes back at least to the eighteenth-century philosophes: Science contradicts the teachings of religion; science is essential for the betterment of mankind; therefore the teachings of religion are an obstacle to the betterment of mankind. Anything that is an obstacle to the betterment of mankind is harmful; anything that is harmful must be eliminated; therefore religion must be eliminated. Our critic calls this "reasoned faith," and certainly the progression of propositions is valid, but to be cogent, an argument must be based on true premises. However, to convince someone of anything, e.g., the existence of God, it is not even enough to have a cogent argument but one whose premises will be considered true by the person to whom the argument is being made. Similarly, a valid argument may be believed to be cogent if the premises are believed to be true, even if they are not. No proof, therefore, will be convincing to everyone, since the premises of any argument are themselves propositions that might be believed or disbelieved, or might be seen as requiring proof.

The lead atheist in the thread, a person bearing the screen name tashuu4269, is fond of asserting that various arguments are "circular," since he believes he can detect in the arguments, particularly the argument from design, the conclusion already present in the premise. I doubt this assertion, but maybe I am missing something, Those who respond to him want him to read Intelligent Design books, he wants them to read Carl Sagan. I think it might be enough for him to read his own arguments and those of his fellow atheists. One of the favorites, repeated in several forms, in its simplest outline goes, "Christians have killed many people in the name of their religion. Therefore their religion is untrue and bad." Expanded into a logical form, this argument might be rewritten as follows:

P1. Killing people unjustly is a moral evil.
P2. Christians have killed people unjustly in the name of their religion.
P3. Any cause in the name of which someone does something that is a moral evil is itself a moral evil.
C1. Therefore the religion of Christians is a moral evil.
P5. The tenets of the religion of Christians state that their religion is not a moral evil.
C2. Therefore the tenets of the religion of Christians are erroneous.

This argument is valid, and therefore cogent if the premises are true. The most dubious of the premises is P3, since one could find many other causes in the name of which moral evils, even the specific moral evil mentioned here, have been committed. But for the materialist, proposition P1 is the most problematical. How does the materialist know that killing people unjustly is a moral evil? How does he even come by the category of moral evil? How about the category of justice? He denies that the coming into existence of nature is evidence of the supernatural. One atheist quoted here sums up his belief as "If there is no one to tell us what is right from wrong, we must use our own intelligence and common sense to remind ourselves of the differences, and not do nonproductive acts simply because we can." If there is no one to tell us what is "right from wrong" then how can he say we must do anything? It is easier for something to come out of nothing than for a compulsion to come out of a natural fact.

Tashuu gives a political bite to his argument by mentioning abortion:

There is no non-superstitious reason to not allow abortion. Why should the superstitious beliefs of someone else enter in the debate, and prevent someone I love from getting this procedure?

Debate money, debate who should pay for abortion, debate at what point one should be allowed to have an abortion, etc., etc., but do not tell me that an "immortal soul" factors into the equation!

 

The implied argument here is that belief in something supernatural (in this case, an immortal soul) is superstitious; the only reason to forbid abortion is the belief that an unborn child has an immortal soul; therefore the only reason to forbid abortion is the acceptance of superstition. However, he appears to be prepared to allow that there might be a "non-superstitious" reason to forbid abortion at some "point," by which I presume he means some stage of fetal development. On what basis that would not similarly be a basis for forbidding any abortions? Sentiment, perhaps, since he admits that potentially he could love someone. Moreover, if there is no non-superstitious reason for forbidding abortion, what non-superstitious reason is there for forbidding murder, or rape, or racial discrimination? What non-superstitious basis is there for saying "should" as Tashuu does three times in as many sentences?

What is Tashuu's underlying principle?

Now, since I don't assume any happy things about "after death", I want the best life while I'm still living ;) For example, I'm a biological being with a finite life span, as far as anyone can know. I'm oviously built to enjoy sex and seeing members of the opposite sex naked.

I don't need a bunch of immoral Christians trying to prevent me from this during my short life. Take those of you that claim that god will provide, that we can loot the planet dry - you all die "happy", while your children's children are left cleaning up your mess

Even if I bought your main argument, which is that a stick is brown because it is long, and long becuse it is brown, thus accepting the "supernatural", Christianity would be near the bottom of my list of religions to worship. It simply doesn't have good morals and ethics in general.

 

Sex and environmentalism (if that's what his reference to "loot the planet dry" means) seem to be foremost in his mind. To what the beginning of the third paragraph refers I cannot tell, but in the end he seems to be attempting a moral argument. He does not approve of Christianity's morals and ethics--based no doubt on his own which include not looting the planet and enjoying sex and seeing members of the opposite sex naked. Because Christians hope for happiness after death, therefore they do not care about their children's children; but if believes that there is no survival after death, on what does he base his own concern for his children's children (the ones he has not had aborted, that is)? He will be dead as any dinosaur, and where did he get a duty to his or anyone else's children? If he is not facing a final judgment, he could do anything he liked, provided it gave him sufficient pleasure and precluded his own pain.

So maybe in the end it is all about sex. Do atheists, at least Internet atheists, hate Christianity, and are they determined to prevent its propagation, because the moral demands of Christianity place restraints on sexual activity? In that case, there is nothing that anyone can say that will change their minds.