Eric Lowell who lit up the LDP Ultraskate scene in
Seattle this year, and has also been sighted over in the UK inspiring
their long-distance crew, has been working closely with Mark G of "G-Bomb"
longboards lately.
They've been experimenting with angled brackets to
find a cool compromise between the low efficiency of a dropped push-board,
and the over-the-nose leverage of a topmount pumper.
Some details on the progression of Mark's invention,
which originally started as "G-Bomb Longboards" is on this
thread:
Many will tell you "any deck can be pumped."
And while this statement is basically true, it's not complete.
What you should know is that some setups can
be pumped far more efficiently than others.
Many other factors must be taken into account
as well. You wouldn't buy a BMX bike for an interstate bicycle
race, as you wouldn't ride a park board to pump a longboard marathon.
Even a high-tech slalom board would be debateable for a marathon,
because your pumps will be far shorter and faster. You're best
off considering a board with a much longer wheelbase, and a touch
of FLEX.
With all the gimmicky new "surf-like"
trucks and gadgets that pop up on the market each year, there
is an important element of getting back to the basics, that should
always be kept in mind.
All that said, the most efficient Long Distance
Pumping setups are made up of the following elements.
1. High-rebound wheels in a durometer that suits
the terrain. 84a is fine for good surfaces, but 78a is probably
the best all-around durometer.
2. Wheel size that matches the terrain. Short ride? 66-70mm is
fine. Real distance, like 10 miles or more? Bump it up to 75/76mm.
You'll appreciate the added momentum and ability to maintain a
faster high-end clip.
3. A very turny front truck with excellent, snappy rebound back
to center. Good bushings make all the difference.
4. 10-15 degrees of wedging in the front truck (and sometimes
more.)
5. A stable rear truck with excellent rebound to center. Again,
choose bushings wisely.
6. 5-10 degrees of de-wedging in the rear truck.
7. Simply clean, oiled bearings, in the Abec 3-5-7 range. The
differences are trivial. Ceramics can be overkill for harsh trail
riding conditions in LDP.
8. A deck that is wide enough in the nose to enable the full width
of your foot, to transfer more subtle movements directly over
and down into the front truck's pivot.
9. A wheelbase in the range between 26" to 31".
10. Some degree of subtle flex in the board. Not a soft noodle,
and not stiff as a rock.
Realize that shorter setups, such as those used
in slalom, can be much easier to learn on, though it is not absolutely
necessary to do so. These have wheelbases in the 17" to 22"
range, are usually in the 8" to 9.5" widths, and are
not always of the flexy variety.
A longer board will give you both. You can ride
the nose and experiment with smaller pumps to accelerate, then
step back, widen your stance, and get into some long, deep, driving
grooves.
An LDP with "hips", this sexy shape
helps you power pumps off the rear foot more, and adds overall
rigidity to the deck. The subtle concave option adds even more
strength and function if you like your feet to be 'cupped' into
the deck.
The design of the Mermaid was based initially
on function, and we worked the style and shape around several
important aspects of long distance riding. Gareth tested the design,
and John Stryker cut and finished the final shapes, the end result
is truly a combined effort.
Ride testing has been rigorous, literally thousands
of miles have been poured into this animal to get a shape and
flex just right for LDP excursions. During the years I've ridden
Roe's I've mixed in distance riding on all other kinds of boards
whenever possible, yet the magic of the Roe deck recipe, and the
consistency and craftsmanship, is still unsurpassed.
It does take a while for a Roe to be built and
shipped, as they're built to order, so allow several months. But
when it arrives, you'll know why.
Alan and Kimmy on the Burke
- August 2007.
Kris's description over on silverfish says it
all:
"Looks like a chinchilla-lined waterbed for the rear foot
to complement the pure-silk rotating circular bed for the front
foot"
:-D
The Pulse Rev 2.0
With camber and a little more concave ... currently
under test!
With a carbon fiber SNAP, and some influence
and ride testing that will make this one of the most versatile
LDP boards to date. Scotty truly understands the value of testing
and building boards consistently for performance. I've been blown
away how much work he does by hand and gets it perfect, the guy
is an artistic technician!
John Stryker has influenced this one in design
(helped on the nose reshape and the core construction), it's been
tested by many on the CSA crew, and Sheldon Lessard has been out
riding a proto all over the country.
www.subsonicskateboards.com
All impressions so far concur - lightweight,
snappy and fast. Concave, straight across the middle from nose
to tail, and nice wide pockets for getting your pumping feet locked
in and cranking turns!!
I have always dug Scott's amazing woodwork and
finishing touches, and over the years he's been researching and
refining his blends of concaved fiberglass and wood. When the
first proto arrived, before I even stood on it, was once again
blown away by the craftsmanship and the very unique beveled edge
he tossed in, which these pictures just don't do justice.
Back in 2000 I bought one of his first Swerve
boards, owned a couple of his slalom boards since then, and over
the winter worked out a shape with him for LDP.
I've been splitting my rides up with some mileage
on this one and sharing it with some other local rippers.
He also threw in the tiger stripe grip tape job
as a surprise and it suits the deck perfectly!
Scott's got so many great options like colors,
wheel wells, and alternate grip designs.
This board is named for
the distances it's destined to travel. Inspired by the aboriginal
rite of passage, when young men "go walkabout" on the
same paths as their ancestors -- it's also a blend of a lifelong
passion for music. It was sheer dumb luck to have attended the
UW Music school when Stuart Dempster taught, I took his didge
class to learn better breathing techniques for trumpet. Nearly
20 years later, out cruising and listening to some mp3's this
summer, there were these great tracks of techno beats mixed with
the rhythmic drone of the didge, and the Walkabout name just popped
into the uber-subconscience and that was that. Now just need some
plane tickets to the Land Down Under to make this journey complete!
Snappy flex with a slight camber, a gradual concave
throughout the length of the deck, and a smooth pocket for the
front foot for when you're moving around, switching up stances.
Most common question: "What's the kick nose
for?" I don't use the kick nose all too often, except I've
found when riding backward it's a comfy place to position the
heel. Also works great in those times when you've been riding
a while and might otherwise end up stepping off the nose of the
board-- something I've done a time or two! It's really a functional
add that was requested by many LDP'ers out there who prefer to
ride the nose more, and it works! I suspect some of the tricksters
might find they can nose manual more easily on this one, though
I find that pretty tricky with an uber-loose front truck!
Below pic: equipped with RED 81a Bennetts, a
nice balance between a sticky turny slalom wheel and something
that you can feel shred the asphalt as you commit hard sliding
turns.
I had been asking Larry for a "back to roots"
wood board on the outside but with some technical adds, like a
fiberglass and carbon fiber Oreo cookie. You can even see the
glass in some of these pics if you look closely. Larry's getting
it dialed.
The LBL Walkabout in action...
John Stryker putting the LBL Walkabout through
6-foot cyber course!
Shorter, thinner, lighter, lower CG, and FASTER!
APR 2006 37.75" Roe Pavedwave LDP board,
next to its heavier 2005 prototype:
RoeRacing LDP 2006
After several years of long distance pump testing
a wide range of setups on the trails, this formula rules them
all!
It's lightweight and snappy, using just the
right amount of birch plys, triaxial fiberglass, and RoeRacing
carbon fiber for extra pop and an extra long life, but not so
much to weigh down the ride. The excesses from previous models
have been removed. Gareth got this board DIALED -- it makes for
effortless pump sessions!
Original template surf-shape, wide in the nose
and cutaway shape at the tail. The overall 37.75" length
of the deck is not as important as the 28.5" / 29.5"
wheelbase that works perfectly on this setup, for half- and full-
flatland pump marathons, or all-out cruise sessions along the
waterfront.
The wide nose enables full foot placement across
the width of the deck, making it easy to leverage power and quick
pumps over the front. Step back just behind the front truck and
the low camber returns a snap like no other.
The camber is subtle -- and it needs to be subtle
for distance rides. Boards with higher camber look cool, and do
snap nicely on short pump sprints, but the cumulative effect of
"hyper snapping" camber is a feeling of being tossed
off the nose of the board. With Roe's mellow camber, when more
power is needed its there by pumping down hard with the back foot,
but when you're in the "cruising gears", your weight
naturally presses the camber to a flatter plane and thus, far
more comfortable for many miles and miles of road ahead. This
isn't a discovery that would become obvious after just pumping
cyber sprints, or even a mile or so. Try 10 or 20+ miles at a
time -- and listen to what your feet start telling you!
The cutaway in back is just before the rear truck,
so the back foot can still be placed far toward the rear of the
deck, when you want a full width stance and a long trail cadence
pump, powering off the rear and steering with the nose.
With trucks placed nearly at the nose and tail,
and a wide platform, it practically makes for a Super GS board
-- that can also double as a nosewalker -- there's enough room
for cross-stepping and switching stance easily. But this is obviously
far from your standard surf plank.
Pictured here with 90mm Split Fire Phase III
up front, heavily wedged with Khiro wedge kit, and Khiro white
bushings. Rear is 107mm Split Fire Phase I with Tracker Stim on
bottom and Khiro cone on top.
The Carver CX front + rear combo runs sweet on
this deck as well!
Typically I'm running either 76mm Retro Gumballs,
or 75mm shaved Avilas of various duros, depending on just how
gnarly the terrain is.
The previous LDP protos had been requested several
times over (as Customs) by people who've been similarly bitten
by the long distance trail riding bug. Gareth and Michael have
been instrumental in coaching on pumping techniques and asking
the right questions at the right time, sometimes when I had even
crazier ideas about the deck's shape and how to create more leverage
where its needed. The first templates were cut out, then pressed
and shaped by Steve, and the latter models were shaped and refined
with tweaks by John Stryker. Thanks to all of them, and to those
who've recognized and contributed to this unique and steadily
growing niche.
Much energy has gone into these boards -- and
waiting to be unleashed on the trail!!
A perfect hybrid pushing / pumping setup like
this has been elusive, but the Evo-Bennett combo is working pretty
sweet.
I love Bennett Truks, and I've always liked the
intelligent wedging of the Evo. After several commutes on the
Evo-Bennett Pumper, and a lot of winter garage sessions, some
other modifications are in the works to get this thing dialed.
A lot of other guys have been riding it at our
garage bombing and cyber sessions, and really digging it!
This setup is now a candidate for the 2008 Seattle
to Portland in July, in fact I'd say it's been inspired by that
course. The first day of the STP has a lot of flat and pumpable
terrain, but the second day, the highway into Portland has tons
of rough chipseal asphalt, and more inclines to push.
I've been wanting to find a middle ground board,
knowing that the topmount is still always going to be a better
pumper overall, and that the drop-deck saves your energy when
you just have to push.
Other lowrider pumpers I've tried so far are:
- park boards converted to schlongboards and
mounted with Seismics
- Afroman 38" deck with Randal 150 front and conventional
Indy rear
- Bustin's lowered setups with Randals front and rear
- Lush Samba with Seismics
None of these really worked out the way I'd hoped,
mainly because in order to get the wheels big enough and the trucks
turny enough you'd have a lot of modding to the original deck
shape to avoid bite, and also because there are very few decks
that have natural dewedging built into the rear.
=== === === === === === === ===
Some follow up on this -
The Evo-pumper didn't enjoy a whole lot more
love, after I set up Bennetts on the dropped "Cambiar"
deck (the aluminum bracket system, a creation of Mark Groenenboom's)
which may soon become the Loaded "Fathom" system. What
that configuration added to the game which the Evo-pumper could
not, is the element of flex that's needed.
There have been some other testers spending more
time with that board, and I'm keeping a thread on it HERE.
And another related thread here.
The Evo was an interesting experiment, in that
you could maintain a "tic-tac" pump, pouring energy
from the rear of the board, and gliding the "steering"
front foot back and forth, so the front bushings needed to be
loose, yet not sloppy, and have their own return to center. What
really was lacking though was to have the entire board give back
some energy. The other downside is that you're giving up having
the ability to move forward on the deck to put more weight over
the front truck, when you want to shift around stances and use
less energy to just glide through the flat and pump up speed more
efficiently, without as much energy investment.
And of course, you don't want to assume that
just because this thing's a speedboard, you can point it down
a hill as you might with Randals... I've taken my Bennetts up
to around 40 mph on a topmount comfortably, but the drop deck
adds another level of "squirrellyness" which I wasn't
willing to test out on any real hills.
So for a mellow cruiser, with an option to pump
some distances, the Evo was fun, but I wouldn't consider it a
dedicated setup.
The UnLoaded
The Vanguard has always been one of my favorite
carvers. I've tested every flex they have and always preferred
the 1's and 2's, though at my 165 lbs I suppose that's considered
extra stiff.
So kickin around some extra boards in my garage
in the winter of 2006, I figured I'd better do something with
the Vanny since it hadn't seen much love lately. I'd gotten so
immersed in flats, distance pumping all the time and hadn't been
out recently just to carve hills on my Carveboard, my Flexdexes,
or my Loaded. I'd even sold off a couple I wanted back, so I picked
up another couple stiffer flexes in oak.
Then the idea struck. I needed a new prototype LDP to test, and
there was a Vanguard just begging for the jigsaw.
So to do the shaping right, I called John Stryker,
who doesn't ride even a brand new foamcore board unless he's taken
a saw to it first -- I'm not making that up! So John's got the
mad skills (he shaped all the 2006 RoeRacing boards) I draw out
the shape on the nose and a little off the tail, and John gets
it cut out and back to me within a couple days. Then after a bit
of riding and testing the flex and giving it the nod, my friend
tells me he'd be happy to slap a professional paint job on it.
So there you have it -- a professional shaping,
re-grip and paint job, just the right trucks and setup, and the
Loaded now takes on a new life:
These experiments were a transition between the
2006 Mermaid and the 2007 Subsonic LDP.
The Subsonic steps the platform's width up by
quite a notch, takes out the high camber, adds a bit more concave,
thins out the edges with a nice bevel, and adds a bit more rigidity
with some glass and a little carbon fiber!!
EPILOGUE: Check this out! Some guy on the German
forum longboardz.de built his own now as well, he calls it the
"Reloaded" :-)
There are many ways to config a deck for distance
pumping, and depending largely on preference and pump style, some
work better than others. What I'm imparting are my opinions on
what works best, and a good number of pumpers here in the Northwest,
where we've got endless miles of paved trails to ride.
First, the TRUCKS.
As the saying goes, what's old is new...and there
is some "new" magic in the reissue BennettTruks
-- I'm putting more time on these than anything else now.
My typical (front) Bennett Bushing
Setups for LDP
Bennetts feel a lot like
an Indy, with a fast turn on initiation, and they turn like crazy
all the way through. In slalom there seems to be a couple "schools",
those who really like the power of a Tracker turn, and those who
have been sold on the feel of an Indy since day one. A splitfire
in back combination gives rear truck stickiness at the fastest
speeds (flatland doesn't usually get much faster than 20mph) and
the Bennett in front has a nice, easy surf feel that translates
well to the trails. One thing I have to re-learn is how to footbrake
at speed on these. The first time I broke at around 25mph, I didn't
realize how much twitchier the front was than my splitfire!!
One thing I like about
asphaltplayground.com's SplitFire
in front, is that the axle is nearer the baseplate than a Randal
or Carver truck, decreasing the overall height from deck-to-ground,
which makes for easier pushing, for those unavoidable times when
you must resort to that primitive skill. ;-)
Over the past year I've come to appreciate most
the Bennett front / SplitFire rear, a perfect combination for
a pumping machine.
Here are a few shots of my rear trucks. I always
run them dewedged, and have lately moved all the SplitFires to
DH baseplates. Since the SplitFires are currently on production
hiatus, other options that I've set up are Tracker RTS and Indys
on back -- which are about a sixth of the cost, and at least in
the world of LDP, make a negligible difference.
The CarverCX
has obviously been a favorite in the past. We were riding these
hard way before Carver's marketing department finally woke up
and started actively promoting them. With wheels of 75mm, they
require 1-1/2" or more of risers (just flat ones, no angles),
so pushing can be challenging especially up hills, but it surfs
like crazy, so most the time you shouldn't be touching ground
anyway.
For a relatively inexpensive, back-to-basics
setup I would use a reverse
kingpin truck, such as a Randal150 or a GullwingCruiser60.
R180's or Holeys are okay, but those broad hangars will require
a wider, more energy-invested pump, and what I prefer is a hangar
that lets you tack the nose back and forth more effortlessly,
at a shorter 'wavelength' and higher frequency. Paris trucks look
far more elegant than the Randals, with a polished finish and
arguably more consistent machining, though functionally there
is very little difference.
Tracker RTX/RTS combos are great for slalom pumping.
I find their turn to be of a progressive nature, and not as conducive
to long distances because they require a bit more effort. Trackers
seem to turn gradually, but as you continue to turn, they turn
very deep and positive, which is probably why they work so well
on the stiff, broad-nosed AXE slalom deck. However, the energy
investment for short, wiggly acceleration costs a little more,
and over the long hauls, I tend to use this method to either maintain
momentum or sprint up long inclines.
On any truck, I basically stick with Khiro
barrel bushings, usually a barrel on both the top and
bottom.
Then, there's RISERS.
How the truck is mounted on the deck will greatly
increase or decrease its turny, surfy quality. For LDP, you want
a tacking, back and forth action in the front, and a relatively
stable rear truck. For the SplitFires, Bennets, Randals, or Gullwing
Cruisers, a strong wedge in front and slight de-wedge in back
feels just right.
On the CX, I typically just ran 1-3/4" of
flat risers with 75mm wheels and stock bushings.
Exact riser and hardware measurements vary widely,
because my wheel choices generally range from 70mm to 77mm, bushings
range from super soft to medium duros, decks can have some concave
which raises the edges slightly -- so these choices have a huge
influence on whether you run into wheelbite or not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Current favorite riser/wedge
combinations in the front (with Bennetts) are:
Config1: 15 degree angle
wedge plus ONE of the Khiro angled 'shock pads' for 75-77mm wheels
(Vents, BigZigs, Gumballs)
Config2: 10 degree angle wedge plus ONE of the Khiro angled
'shock pads' for wheels in 70mm range (Zags, HotSpots, Manx)
Config3: TWO soft angled wedges (70mm wheels)
- add a flat 1/8" riser (Avilas, Gumballs) or 1/4" riser
(SpeedVents)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This may look like a lot of riser, but in fact,
these wedges are fat only on one end and very thin on the other,
so my LDPs tend to be as far off the ground as other, more standard
setups.
Khiro Wedge Kit diagram
and typical risers used.
Most setups are about
1/4" off the deck on the thin end...
For 75-77mm wheels, about
1-1/2" off the deck on the thick end...
Slalom set up with 10
degree wedge and two flat 1/8" risers.
What I typically run on any reverse kingpin truck
or Bennets, are Khiro
angled 'shock pads' in front, which are actually a large
wedged rubber riser that is 3/16" on one end and 9/16"
on the fat end, plus if I'm using wheels that are 75mm or larger,
will add at least 1/8" flat riser and sometimes another very
thin angled riser.
Usually before fully tightening everything up,
you can just put the baseplate over the bolts, grab the wheels
and wrench the hangar side to side, to get an idea whether you've
got enough riser to keep the dreaded wheelbite from getting you.
To just take care of all your angled riser needs
once and for all (until you need more, anyway) just pick up one
of the Khiro
wedged riser kits!
As far as hardware goes these days, I rarely
buy anything shorter than 1-1/2" up to 3", just get
a collection of bolts in all lengths and you'll never
be stuck with a truck-less deck!
WHEEL preferences -- I'm usually running
one of these on distance setups:
- 75a 77mm Speed Vents - fastest top end
speed, good on poor-to-excellent trail conditions
- 72a 75mm Red or PurpleSkunk Avilas - because of
its amazing soft duro that maintains its momentum on nice surfaces,
and gets over the nastiest asphalt smoothly, this is still the
wheel of choice for tackling ALL terrain LDP!
- Pink Gumballs - amazing rebound, and cushy for nasty
trail conditions
- Lime/Lemon BigZigs - amazing rebound, best on good-to-excellent
trail conditions
Longboard Larry - Prototype "Comet"
Note: This prototype deck was on a different
custom design and testing cycle from Larry's "Sandpiper"
deck. It worked well at a time when I needed
to test out my shape in a plain birch deck, a more basic wood
config that neither Roe nor Insect were commercially producing
at the time. We called this board the "Comet."
I've tested several of LBL's bamboo Sandpipers,
and though they personally don't suit my prefs for ldp, I think
the Sandpiper looks nice and works well as a boardwalk cruiser.
Larry's creations are works of art, definately smooth on the eyes...
RoeRacing / Insect Hybrid Custom
44" x 10", custom template surf-shape,
wide in the nose and narrow to the tail.
Inspired by a cross between a RoeRacing Crossfire
slalom deck, and my favorite longboard shape with a wide nose.
Gareth helped spec it, and Steve built and dialed it perfectly!
Carver CX truck system, mounted 4" from
the nose and 1" off the tail. Big, fast 76mm Avilas. TWO
1/2" risers to avoid wheelbite. (Recommend FLAT risers with
CXs!!)
www.roeslalom.com
RoeRacing 38" Foam Torsion Core custom!
- Carver CX, TWO 1/2" flat risers, and 75mm soft Avilas underneath.
My bro Skip owns this deck now, he was out with
me on its Maiden voyage around Green Lake and it fit him right
away. Skip used to ride a narrow G & S deck and this Roe had
a width of something like 8"--8.5" which fit his stance
perfectly. This is the lightest and snappiest LDP combination
custom Roe board yet.
www.roeslalom.com
Lib Tech Koi or Toxic Surfer (same
deck, different graphic) - 44" x 9.25", 24" wheelbase,
a stiff longboard deck you can also thrash in the skateparks with.
www.libskates.com
Carver C7s are one of the best surfing/carving
stoke trucks out there. Since the truck itself is so loose, it's
best kept on a stiff deck, that's why I like this combo. The C7
demands muscle to keep a long distance pump going, so I thought
the Carver setup wouldn't be the best for marathon rides -- it's
more like an excellent 1-3 mile surfing-pumping workout deck.
Now I keep the Carver C7 mounted to a
Tony Hawk park flippy deck with soft 60mm NoSkools, to get the
KIDS hooked on flatland carving...
Carver CX - The 2005 CX model is now on
three of my decks -- one is pictured unmounted next to the C7
for comparison. It's a far simpler design, and with a tighter
setup, is great for much longer distances... STOKED!
More on the CX's in the Trucks section below...
Unfortunately, Carver's website doesn't give
technical details of their new trucks. And it hasn't been updated
in years for some reason. Links for email / contact are broken.
Those guys need a webmaster! Their marketing flash is still cool
though. www.carverskateboards.com
www.daddiesboardshop.com
www.loosetrucks.com
Morning Wood 40" kicktail pumping deck
More of a hybrid board, I often pulled this one
out for friends who want to check out a surf-like longboard for
the first time or for a shorter trail ride. In the end, I actually
sold this one to a friend I'd never met in person! Its just a
perfect all-around shape.
The kicktail is great for carving around parking
lots with little banks, or just working harder cutbacks, yet its
still got 70mm Flashbacks to (almost) keep up with the other LDP
boards.
Gravity Spoon Nose LDP
I've had the spoon nose out only for a few rides,
it's been a really wet and icy Northwest winter so far. I set
it up as I would any other LDP board underneath: Pink Gummies,
Bennett 5.0 front, Tracker RTS in back, standard wedging/dewedging.
First impression is that the deck rides smooth
and a little soft, kinda like most other all-wood boards (like
my flexdex pro60.)
Shape-wise its great, with a broad nose and very
mellow concave. If you're up for some casual pump sessions it
would be a good board to start with, definately more affordable
and Daddiesboardshop shipped me one in literally 2 days!
If I kept riding this setup hard, I wouldn't
expect it to keep its 'pop' more than a few months, which is why
I like glass and carbon which add to and extend the life of the
board.
But a birch board like this serves well for a
while as a snappy pumper and can live its 2nd life as a carver/cruiser.
Hopefully as the weather improves I'll put it through some more
commutes and see how it goes.
Flexdex Pro60 - 60" x 10", Long
Distance Pleasure cruiser. Gullwing Cruiser 60 trucks front and
back. Grippins front, Flashbacks in the back.
Incredible flex due to the length -- although
its a little on the heavy side, it maintains great momentum in
the flats. I've owned Sector9 Nosewalkers and long Gravity decks,
but no other big wooden "ironing board" type flat deck
has had this kind of perfect flex and return in the carves.
I was so sold on this deck that I bought a 40-board
pallet of these from Flexdex when they went out of business, and
sold most of them on eBay for cheap, just to share the stoke and
pay for the skate addiction. I've also donated a few in events
and school auctions.
Flexdex made only a couple wooden decks but they
somehow nailed the flex almost the same as their fiberglass boards.
Like no other...
So far the longest Roe TC deck ever made. Wider
than the 38", it looks like a surfboard cruiser, but ultralight,
and built for speed! The deck design is an extremely extended
version of the Roe Crossfire shape. Wicked
responsive flex. There's times I've felt I was simply floating.
A long thin wood stringer runs the length of
the deck, adding flex and strength to the foam core. Carbon fiber
on the base for strength and flex. Unpainted foam edges give it
a surfboard look.
FEATURED LDP BOARD -- PINKY!
For now, her name is "Pinky" and she's
a Foamcore, one-off custom version of the Roe Mermaid.
Built by Bryan Blythe of NC ("dustm"
on Silverfish) he sent up all 42 ounces of her last week via Priority
Insured mail, in a neatly folded up cardboard box. From Bryan's
creative and smart use of packaging I thought me might have grown
up in a Japanese household making origami cranes all his life!
After getting over the WOW factor of the lightness
of the deck, I placed the deck on top of some books at either
end, to stand on it and get a feel for the flex.
I decided on the 2nd to max wheelbase, thinking
that maybe there was a little too much flex going max, and also
not wanting to prematurely explode this deck by pushing the limit
too far on the first time out. Prototype foamcores can be a tricky
thing to build just right, especially when you're getting out
to 30" wheelbases.
First off -- NO problems whatsoever on the durability!
My first test run was a big one. After going up and down my local
street a few times, and getting the trucks dialed, I figured might
as well jump in the deep end and take her for a real spin. So
on one of our remaining Sunny Seattle afternoons, we got out on
the trail behind my house and shot to Redmond, a 30-miler there
and back.
After a couple miles, I realized I probably could
have gone with the max wheelbase after all, being used to the
bigger strides and a little more flex from my carbon+birch Mermaid.
But I just decided to keep going and enjoy the snappier, shorter
pumps and get tuned into the "technical" feel of a carbon
+ foam flex. It definitely felt strong enough for up to 200 lbs,
on the innermost wheelbases. And the lightness was obvious, especially
after 10 miles+ and on inclines.
Just before the destination of Redmond, a huge
line of women came streaming onto the trail, and it looked like
it wasn't going to stop anyime soon. And by sheer coincidence,
they all happened to be wearing a ton of PINK!! Apparently I had
just invaded a 60-mile Breast Cancer walk, and some of them were
cheering me on as I slalomed mostly on their left (for the ones
still paying attention to trail ettiquette) and sometimes had
to slice and wend my way between them, getting some cheers along
the way -- a few of them shouting "GO PINK!" :-D
At the 15-mile turnaround point I stopped to
take a breather and stood the board up on end, pointing toward
the trail so all the cancer walkers streaming by could see the
shiny fiberglass and carbon underside with Pink Gumballs. It felt
like a really good omen, a perfect christening for the board's
first test here. I took note of my feet and legs condition, and
overall fatigue. Just as important to gauge this after an hour
or so of straight pumping, though very difficult to quantify.
But I was "feeling it" a bit more, possibly from a little
bit more vibration, but maybe because I wasn't getting as much
spring out of this board as my birch. Bryan had already noted
that he thought it might use a touch more camber, and I have to
agree a bit on that point. It could improve the 'pop' just a bit,
and that adds up as you rack up the distance.
Overall I felt that the shape was just right
for the feet -- and I was able to get some good snap out of the
deck on the smooth, straight stretches, and power up the hills
well because of the light weight. The lightness helped for the
ride back home.
Personally, the concave WORKS -- the fact that
it's just a tad bit more than mellow, is probably one good reason
why Bryan's been able to build a wheelbase this long and still
retain it's strength -- concave running from end to end adds a
significant amount of this.
The next day, still feeling pretty beat at the
usual sunrise ride time, I decided on an afternoon outing instead.
And it all came together -- Sheldon called, I called Rain, and
texted Beth. We had a crew amped for Greenlake! This time I bumped
out to the max wheelbase, and instantly dug the feel more. So
I rode Pinky for the first 2 laps, then finally back to my Mermaid
+ BlackOps to finish out the day.
I'm inspired to test with LDP foamcores again,
maybe becoming an apprentice boardbuilder of Gareth's on the weekends,
if he can ever afford that kind of time. We kicked about this
idea, making the Torsion Core LDP some years back, but it would
take a lot more long distance testing to get it just right. Vibration
dampening, and durability over the long hauls (and through really
hot temps) are just a couple more things to think about.
Bryan's work is truly great, and this is just
one of the first few experimentals he's built -- amazed how well
it rides, and is holding up. All around the seal of the edges
look solid, and the foam shaping on the bottom is nicely thought
out, leaving thin edges that act as wheelwells front and rear.
Now I plan to send this off to another distance brother for testing!
Thank you for the opportunity to check this out
Bryan!
It had to be done. Just looking at the angles
of the nose and tail on the Landyachtz EVO, then the wedging of
the Seismic Stik, it seemed to lend itself perfectly to a little
experiment in a bigger version of the homemade stik pumper setup.
What works: The feel of the Evo deck,
to start with. How both feet can be cradled in the front and back
and feel locked in.
Also, drop decks are far more efficient for pushing,
and I've been trying for a dropped pumping deck that would make
those impossible to pump hills a lot easier to fly over.
The SpeedVents - YUM YUM. Very good grip and
roll speed.
The cut-out hand-hold was just icing on the cake.
This is a Good Karma board from Mark, the guy that makes G-bomb
longboards, and he cut that, as well as affixing urethane strips
along the bottom for occasional high-centering. Well, I busted
one of the strips off on a ride so decided to sand the whole thing
down and repaint jet black.
Whats funky: It could definately use a
stiffer back spring, I sold all my reds and greens. I like the
springless Seismic in front, but it wouldn't be practical for
speeds past 15mph, and since this deck is so stiff, there isn't
as much pump return as with the smaller schlongboard / seismic
stik. It's fun to tool around on and always amazes people that
they can keep it moving on flats -- but after the novelty wears,
and there's 11 more miles to go, it really needs some more return
to center.
Will there ever be silver Seismic springs again?
That would be the perfect compromise...
Feast your eyes on the Seismic Stik -
bastard child of the CarveStik.
It's the ultimate way to save that flippy board
from the fireplace.
I don't know if Gesmer would approve of my running
the trucks without springs (an idea borrowed from Dave Forsythe
this summer), there might be kingpin breaking issues, and there's
definately speed wobble issues! -- but this thing carves like
you wouldn't believe. Turns any parking lot into a little beachfront
property with perfect waves...
rollsrolls"Sportster"
- carbon fiber / kevlar deck - long distance cruising and downhill
carving board
These were the boards of choice for Jack Smith's
team that rode across the U.S.A. a couple years back. Ultra lightweight.
Unique German-made design, with all wheel fenders,
making it usable as a RAIN board which is great for Seattle.
Neither of the rolls decks are particularly good
for pumping -- but they're ULTRA-light and the best alternative
for distance when there is more pushing and less pumping involved.
I commute on these when the surface is still damp, or even in
the pouring rain if I'm jonesin' for a ride no matter what the
conditions.
There is very little return on such a stiff deck
although I've tried some significant modifications to mount a
turnier truck, to work around the drop-deck architecture. But
with the carbon/foam composite, making new drill holes is not
a good idea!
These decks are set up with:
- Seismic 180s + original RollsRolls 145mm black
wheels
- Randal 150's + original (no longer made) Abec11
101 Flywheels
- Original 6" + new Abec11 97mm Flywheels
(more urethane, less hub, more GRIP)
FAST, comfortable cruiser for the 10-30 mile
runs.
www.rollsrolls.com
Venturi Black Feather
Blending sports car and skateboard design, this
lightweight drop deck feels practically like a hoverboard. Foam
core wrapped with carbon fiber weave all around. Low to the ground
so a total breeze to push. Before the trucks and wheels are mounted,
this thing really does feel like a feather.
If I were to ride this for city commuting, I'd
probably glue on a strip of poly coating for inevitable high centering
over speedbumps and other obstacles -- the ollie isn't an option
here.
At speed, a real DH-oriented rider would likely
want more deck underfoot, particularly in the back where the plank
is most narrow. Its skinny, smooth surface is a bit on the slippery
side. First thing I did was put another couple strips of red grip
tape on the glistening black carbon fiber surface. The single
red pinstripe of tape looks very sleek, but I'm practical enough
that I want my feet to grip the deck.
My "test commute" is normally about
12 miles of smooth bike trail asphalt, and a half mile of actual
street, so in this environment the board is amazing in how it
just floats with a single kick. This is really where it shines.
I've also briefly tested it down the Salem soap
box derby hill, though my trucks were not optimal for downhill,
it felt stable around 25-30mph.
This is model 44 of 200 made in total, so its
definately oriented toward collectors with spare $$$$. It's not
going to appeal much to the traditional skateboard crowd.
For my commutes, the reason I really like the
rollsrolls (above) are the fenders, and the fact I live in the
Northwest where it rains constantly, I can plow through the nastiest
mud and puddles and just have to face the consequence of cleaning
out the bearings a lot. But at least my pants and shoes don't
get completely hosed with cold winter rain. For this reason, and
the fact I far prefer a pumping setup over a pusher, the Venturi
didn't get a whole lot of mileage in the pavedwave test facility.
If I took a second crack at this, I'd go with
a wider deck, angled ends (similar to the carbon EVO) and try
to incorporate some kind of rain fenders.
Fun stuff if you've got the coin.
Subsonic Drop Cruise - built here in the
Northwest by Scott from subsonicskateboards.com, this was one
of my first long distance cruising boards. Currently has rollsrolls
97mm soft and fast cruising wheels, originally had mounted 101
Abec11 Flywheels with the bigger hub and less urethane.
Randal 180's for stability, though I've had Originals
and Seismics mounted on this deck before. It's real low to the
ground and FAT in the middle -- great for a mellow downhill carving
board as well.
Long Distance Paddling?
Well, at least for now we're keeping rides within
the lake's perimeter. It's one of the most enjoyable ways to spend
an early morning, cross-stepping up and down the board, weighting
the tail and practicing the fast turns, using the paddle for support.
And of course taking the inevitable swim now and then. Yet another
excellent way to work the core. The water's warm for the month
of September and October, but after that the wetsuits will be
ready for trips down to Westport!
Shaped by John Stryker, this baby has actually
been my main racing axe for GS, Hybrid, and Cyber slalom for most
of 2006 and all of 2007.
It's like a pumped-up Crossfire, a much wider
shape with ample nose - and a reservoir tip!
I've wanted a board that I could use for all
courses and this one, with just change-ups in wheels, fits the
spec. Usually run 66mm for Cyber and Hybrid, and 70mm or 75mm
for GS.
Currently I'm testing out this new 71mm 84a
/ 81a Bennett combo that's sticky sick!!
2007 Foamcore Roe SlingBlade
This may likely be my board for 2008 -- removed
the custom C-foam blocks and went flat on the nose, might do the
same for the tail, but leaving that alone for now.
Currently shown with a tracker offset in the
rear, I'm going to change this to a splitfire rear and keep the
modified Bennett in front (machining work courtesy of Spencer
Smith!) and if I run across a good deal on a Radikal front, may
finally do the upgrade.
This board is so lightweight, snappy, and fast!
Gareth still makes each one of these by hand in his garage.
2007 and 2008 RoeRacing prototypes
I'm just lucky to be living where some of the
best racers race, train, and test boards throughout the year.
All through the rainy Northwest winter, the parking garages are
our test labs.
These decks have a magical, new snappiness from
Roe's secret deck recipe being sandwiched into a concave mold.
The wicked 2008 surf shape!
So far Gareth has only produced a handful of
these for team members.
Subsonic 30 Poliwog Model - Scott made
one of my best long distance boards years ago and it only made
sense to come full circle, back to have a deck made that fit my
evolving slalom style. I tested out Poliwog's deck last year and
got locked into the concave immediately. Plus the deck is extremely
versatile right out of the box, pre-drilled with several wheelbases,
you could almost go the full range of slalom courses on this one.
Primarily made for TS and Hybrid.
Running the ZigZags on one and Hot Spots on another
-- a Japanese GUS truck + Tracker RTS combo on the longer wheelbase,
and a Tracker 85mm Midtrack + Tracker off-set on the shorter wheelbase
version.
www.subsonicskateboards.com
RoeRacing 2005 S-camber cutaway 28"
- wood/performance series. Indy offset back truck, Split-fire
front. 3dm Avalons front and rear, Mango + Green. This deck grips
the turns!!
The lowered tail on the S-camber makes a perfect
"pocket" for your back foot, and with a slightly wider
stance, traction and turning accuracy is unbelievable.
A little farewell salute to David Pirnack, who
ate up the courses on his RoeRacing S-camber throughout 2007 (he
now rides for Pavel):
Custom Chopped down Landyachtz Mummy -
custom shaped from a Landyachtz longboard by John Stryker, stiff
short and wide, been riding this one on hybrid and Cyber-slalom.
Started with Avalons 86a front, 82a rear. Tracker
RTX with Stims in front, Split-fire with Radikal / Khiro bushing
combo in the back (stiff)
Then switched to Split-fires both front and back.
For Cyber and Tight Slalom, now running 66mm
Retro ZigZags - 86a front and 83a back!! SICK uber-bouncy new
urethane from Abec11!!!
www.landyachtz.com
www.abec11.com
RoeRacing Keith Hollien - wood/performance
series. Radikal back truck, Split-Fire front.
88a Flashbacks front and 80a Avalons rear, a
sick ride. I like the cutouts front and back, as it allows mounting
of larger wheels without use of excessive risers, keeping the
deck lower to the ground.
A buddy, Corey Moy, brought this to setup to
one of the slalom practices in North Seattle early in 2005 and
I instantly dug it, so he graciously let me ride it in 2005 Hood
River TS -- where I subsequently proved that technique, not gear,
is the majority of the game. Hollien was even giving me some great
coaching, but still couldn't get through the cones that day. I
learned a ton, how a course can completely psych you out. We mix
up our practices a lot more now with tighter stingers and more
random offsets...getting stoked for the coming year.
Though I may not be riding the Hollien much more,
will continue to test setups on it. The wide shape in the back
fit my "surf stance" well.
RoeRacing 2003 Crossfire 30" - wood/performance
series. Tracker-S back truck, Tracker-X front. Sticky Grippins
in the back and Mango Avalons up front. Versatile board for TS
and Hybrid courses.
This was my first Roe deck, and it was about
a Med-Stiff. In 2005 I drilled out a long wheelbase on it for
the Hood River GS -- with a Seismic up front and Indy in the back
this thing cooked.
Current setup is a 90mm Split-Fire up front and
a 107mm Split-Fire in the back.
Flexdex
21" slalom deck - (Mini Kelly Slater model) - this was
a tiny experiment for slalom and since its original wheelbase was
only 10", a bro drilled it out farther and we mounted some
Cambrias and Stingers. It was a fun setup, but probably best as
a 'backpack' board, for a college kid wanting to bop from class
to class. Sold it while I was cleaning out my quiver, since I wasn't
putting any mileage on it.
Loaded Slalom Board - an experiment in
progess, no doubt I'll set up the underside a bit lower with either
splitfires or a tracker midtrack in front.
So far, my riding impression is... meh.
Was a flex 2, so with the wheelbase reduced to
21" it's now a very stiff setup, good for someone 200lbs+.
Still tinkering with this one, have a foam c-block kick on top.
RoeRacing Bottle Rocket 28" - foam
core. Super light, fast, and technical TS deck. Traded this one
off for Hollien deck and some trucks.
Carve Board - one of the BEST slow, downhill,
wide-S-shape surfing/carving machines, feels most like a surfboard
and wheels STICK to the pavement as you carve perfect lines down
the slopes. Not at all recommended for flatland cruising, the
pneumatic tires lose momentum too fast. At the same time, even
CarveBoard recommends you don't go too fast on this either.
So basically the board thrives on really long,
winding, gradual slopes. One of the heaviest boards, but addictive
as hell, you forget the weight and just keep charging up the hill
for the next run.
www.carveboard.com
RoeRacing Pintail - the least known, hardly
publicized, and one of the most shredilicious boards in the RoeRacing
longboard line.
Gareth designed this board and added it in 2008,
yet only published it once in Concrete Wave, not even on the RoeRacing
site.
L: 44"
W: 9.8"
WB: 31.5" and 32.5"
Loaded Vanguard - great for downhill carving,
all around downtown cruising board. A little softer and springier,
a snowboarder's dream deck for the off-season. This deck has same
physics as a snowboard, vertical laminate, absolutely worth the
price.
www.loadedboards.com
Landyachtz DH Race Drop Deck - one of
the most stable decks in the quiver, although at one point I moved
the Randal DH trucks to another deck and put Exkates with black
bushings on this one, with Gumballs -- turned it into a faster
version of the CarveBoard. Great for shooting vids of slalom races,
riding straight and fast down the middle of the cone lanes.
I'm no hardcore downhiller but I dug the way
this deck "pockets" your feet and gives you more power
with each carve.
Then one day, it was mounted with 101's and some
crazy dude pumped it until it snapped!
Well, boards are made to ride, and this one lived
a good long life.
www.landyachtz.com
Original Super Carve - 47" x 9",
perfect flexy flat deck. Original spring-loaded Carve Trucks,
and big gummy Avilas. High performance sports car with the cushioning
ride of a Caddy.
www.originalskateboards.com
Dregs Supertanker - 56", big cutouts
for big wheels, or else the way I had it setup was with 76mm Gumballs
and 8" hangar Original trucks - with only 1/2" risers
so it still rides LOW.
Perfect carveboard, fits the Original trucks
nicely. Traded this one off for a rollsrolls deck.
Shitbird Hessian 33" park deck. Indy
169's, Powell Bowl Bombers 64mm, nice hard formica bottom and
a sweet custom grip tape job done by the guy that sold this deck
to me.
Actually a pic of this deck before the bottom
graphic was grrrrrinded off, is still posted on the shitbird website
right here.
Seattle's Faction Skate Shop went out
of business around 2003 (?) but I bought one of their stock park
decks and mounted some Ollie Blocks on it. Maybe will learn to
ollie some day...
Arbor pintail - stiff concave deck. Experimented
with Carver CX's but the C7's and RTR's worked better for this
one, to make it a 'surfer.'
Otherwise I'd recommend more rigid trucks like
Indys or Gullwings and make it a sliding board.
Concave is a real personal preference thing and
this one had more 'lip' than I like.
Have always liked the look of the Hawaiian Koa
on these, but I gave this deck up and he's happy with it.
Flexdex Jim Rippey 36" - Original
setup with Flexdex 65mm wheels and Gullwing trucks, it's got the
nasty lady graphic that will turn heads on your morning commute.
I seriously doubt Flexdex would produce another of these, they
probably caught so much crap for this one!
Flexdex Stinger 36" - flexy cutaway
carver and cruiser. Nice shape and the perfect length for all
around cruising.
Randal 180's on it now but I'll be experimenting
a lot more with this one. Will try a bunch of carve-centric trucks:
Revenges front and back, then Originals, and finally Seismics
just to see what its like. Flexdex's magic is in the downhill
carves.
Flexdex 41" cruiser - billed also
as the "Pro41" on their other more colorful designs.
Classic carving machine with a slightly thicker and heavier flexdex
material. Stock black Kryptonics 70mm wheels mounted on stock
Gullwing trucks.
The stock trucks are not carvy, but the flex
in the deck makes up for that -- sometimes mounting really carvy
trucks like Originals can make the carves just a little too "gooey",
so its better to stay with a more traditional design. The stock
Gullwings that come with Flexdex are...Okay, but Indys are better,
but Randal 150's with loose/carvy bushings are probably the best
so far.
This is one of the decks Flexdex is bringing
back in the re-issue in Fall of 2005.
Flexdex 36"
park deck - this deck never made it big for Flexdex, probably
because it doesn't have a skull or naked lady on the bottom, just
a cool blue color with a simple design, and the hardcores just
don't go for that. But they're missing out...the shape / concave
is sweet and this thing rips in the parks. It's a real stiff wood
deck, no "flex" here. Pictured with Randal 150s and
88a 60mm NoSkools. Currently I've mounted GrindKings and 65mm
Pool Bombers.
Flexdex 30" - the museum piece...there
were only two decks in the quiver that hadn't touched asphalt
and this and the clear 29" Wahine were it -- but this
flowery patterned deck has always been one of my nostalgic favorites.
Mainly because one of my first skateboards in
the late 70's was some kind of flexy plastic, and had this amazingly
hippie-esque flowery print on top.
Well, now since the Bennett Alligator 62mm's
came out, they inspired me to finally christen this board on the
asphalt, and after some more truck tweaking, this one's going
to be seeing a lot more cruising and carving mileage!
Flexdex 32" Bee - yellow striped
deck that's a little beat up and almost the exact same deck in
terms of length and flex, so I know exactly how this deck would
ride.
29" Wahine - apparently this "lexan"
material does not hold up to elephants the way all the other flexdex
material does, but doubtful I'll ever be pounding on this deck
that hard. Nice little barefoot ride for the summer. Have all
the original grip tape for it but prefer the clean look without.
Riding these shorter flexdexes is like having
a 44" longboard with just 30" of deck.
Stand toward center of the deck, and carve hard,
to get a surfy pump out of each turn. Notice that the deck is
whats absorbing the turn, more than the bushings/truck combo.
With stance more over the trucks, you'll pick up speed in the
turns like on a wood deck, but notice the flex still kicks in.
Really no wood board ever rides or carves like one of these. The
main difference is that wood decks are probably much better for
sliding, and you don't worry as much about slamming a curb.
Sticky wheels on a Flexdex are great, haven't
tried this yet but seems like the red cambrias (62mm) would be
best...
Flexdex 28" Classic - This deck is
also in mint condition, but the difference is I'll definately
be riding it. Used to have two of these and sold the other on
eBay. I've used this one for riding parks and also for carving
hills. The shortness of this one keeps your feet closer to the
trucks which stiffens up the ride a bit when you're carving pools,
but if you find a good slope just stand to the center and you're
back on a surfboard.
Currently I've got Rainskates Yellowjackets on
it, almost ready for the park. Flexdex is correct saying their
decks will last forever -- in terms of jumping up and down on
the deck itself -- but the only weak area are the impact zones,
nose and tail, where the fiberglass will splinter if you jam one
into the concrete (DUH!)
So the only mod I'm planning to do is glue on
a front and rear 'bumper' like the ones we use on nice slalom
decks. A couple strips of automotive weather-stripping on the
front and back, extends the life of any deck that's not meant
to be slammed.
Quiver Development, April 2008
It's pretty silly how many decks I have at the
moment that aren't set up, but the fact is currently I spend most
of my time on about six boards total. I'll only be selling a few
of these in the near future (a redundant LY Evo, a chopped down
slalom board from a Loaded Vanguard, and a LBL Walkabout proto)
other than that it's hard to let any go because of "future
possibilities"
Missing from the pic: the yellow rollsrolls,
and the gravity spoonnose on loan. Probably missing some other
decks too that I loaned out and forgot about. :-D
Also notable, the Cambiar, in dead center against
the wall with the cool bracket-like trucks, is a tester board
from Mark Groenenboom, who invented the trucks. Been riding that
one off and on the commutes, and Gareth is testing another G-bomb
setup using a chopped down Roe blank for the deck. Great stuff!
Quiver Development, circa 2002
2 Carve Boards, 7-ply and 8-ply, Tierney T-board
with Indy rubber wheels, Sector9 flexy deck with kicktail, Flexdex
28" Classic, a homemade Birch cut-out purely for experimenting,
Seattle's Faction kicky flipper deck, Heelside 155 Snowboard,
Subsonic (then Curve) Drop-deck with 101 Flywheels, one of my
first snowboards -- a Sims 165 Freestyle from 1989 with Exkate
trucks and Green Kryptonic wheels, and finally a garage-built
balance board somewhat like the Indo board.
My head was heavily into downhill carving at
the time, though the best pumping deck out of this group was the
Sector9, then the Sims Snowboard. That big platform on the Sims
was crazy, pretty easy to get out too far on the tail or nose
and pearl it into the asphalt! The pic below it is me (with hair)
on the same Sims, out at Mt. Hood around 1991.
I haven't updated this section of the page in
a very long time, but it should be pretty obvious that Bennetts
have been the LDP truck of choice since even well before the re-issues
came out in spring 2006.
Earlier that year I was "beta" testing
Bennett's pre-release Truks on the Mermaid and knew instantly
this was a huge step up. After the first week of the 12-mile commute
tests, rode the original red rubbers, switched up all kinds of
other bushings and angled riser combos.
The Bennetts destiny was secured ever since they
first came out for sidewalk pumpers of the 70's!
Never quite got the stock rubber Bennett bushings
to do what I wanted for distance pumping, although they work awesome
for smooth carves and shredding up a hill. When I set up an optimized
snappier pumping deck, I tend to swap out to Khiros, Stims, or
Radikals.
The TURN is what Bennetts are all about. They
surf literally like no other.
Above pic: one of Spencer Smith's bitchin' truck
mods, similar to the Sk8kings Skennett, currently on my Roe SlingBlade.
Below pic: my not-so-bitchin' but highly functional
building-block risers! Using one of Spencer's aluminum machined
spacers to make the Khiros fit just right.
www.bennetttruks.com
Split-Fire (front and back)
Chop the axle in half, then position so it runs
straight through the kingpins axis. That's the concept of the
Split-Fires (and any off-set for that matter) and it makes for
much stickier turns.
At about $100 a truck these are a cost-effective
high performance alternative to Radikals.
www.asphaltplayground.com
RTR (Rail to Rail)
First impressions: Wicked!! Snappier than the
Carver C7, surfier than the CX.
Spring tension *pulls* the hangar back to center
unlike Seismics that use the spring's push.
Have mostly tried with smallish (62mm) wheels,
nothing really big and fast yet. I still need to sprint race someone
on this to see where it tops out. Still seems to me the Carver
CX demands a little more energy input but returns more speed in
return.
This truck is a smooth surfer, and its not quite
as loose as the C7 (my C7 is tightened up as much as possible)
so it can be cranked up to a faster top-end speed. The concept
is similar to C7 but with RTR it seems the spring pulls the hangar
back to center where the main pivot point is a set of rotating
discs. The center bushing is directly over the discs, but doesn't
seem to play much of a role in how the truck surfs from side to
side. If anything it may just soften the transitions.
Carving hard on the RTR, the hangar doesn't dip
as dramatically as on the C7, so a little less riser and bigger
wheels can be used with less risk of wheelbite.
I've moved a set of these to a Longboard Larry
custom deck and testing 'em out over the winter.
Assuming you're a mostly downhill carve junkie,
you'll probably never bust parts that much, but given the torque
from Long Distance Pumping, you run into fatigue more often --
on ALL trucks.
The RTR guys are THE BEST in customer service.
They shipped up replacement springs immediately and I'm working
on modifying one of the parts to hold up to Long Distance Pumping.
1/8/06
I've been running RTRs on the following setups:
1. Longboard Larry 43", 75mm Avilas
82a Front, 72a Back, RTR front and back (the back truck is standard)
Amazingly EFFORTLESS pumping and just cruising the trail. Might
lack the top end speed that the Carver CX offers, but the pump
is super easy, this is a perfect match.
2. MorningWood 41", 70mm Flashbacks
82a Front, 78a Back, Indy in the back. This is the most versatile
setup in the quiver. Carves up parking lots and any flatland,
with the kicktail you can get nuts on it. Turning is super responsive,
and tight. We can easily whip through 6' center Cyber Slalom course.
www.rtrboarding.com
Carvers
Several years ago I took the Carver C7's on a
couple long flat trail rides just to compare against traditional
setups. The C7's are super smooth on flats, seem effortless, turn
a small parking lot into an amazing surf workout. They're real
easy to generate and maintain pump on the low end. Cutbacks, hard
carves, the C7's are great for surf cross-training.
As for higher speed pumping, it's tricky with
C7's to maintain a faster cruising speed and keep up with a standard
bushing+hangar setup, although you can mitigate that somewhat
by setting up with big wheels like Avilas (and huge risers to
match.) C7's are fun to play around on when the weather is wet
and your options are limited to indoor. Recommend these on a stiffer
deck, there's a lot of play in the trucks so if you combine Carvers
with a flexy deck the ride gets real squishy.
They're relatively stable going straight downhill
but I'd get skittish committing to turns once the speed's picked
up...just like any loose truck they get squirrelly at speed. If
there's some dudes who can downhill on these, I'd be interested
in their strategy!
The Carvers pictured are both the C7 and the
CX front truck model.
The CX is a 'tighter' truck than the C7, but
the carving feel is very similar. Carver learned a lot in just
a couple years on simplifying their design yet achieving a very
similar, but more responsive kind of ride.
I'm no truck technician, but I've put some serious
miles on the Carver CX. The first thing I've noticed is getting
past the 300-mile mark without a kingpin breaking... Typically
I can bust Grade8's on a traditional setup after about 80 miles,
and it ain't fun.
The kingpin points straight up from the baseplate,
at a 90 degree angle from the deck, and the axle/hangar "swings"
or swivels behind the kingpin. On almost all traditional trucks,
the kingpin juts up at an angle from the baseplate and the axle/hangar
body pivots on it like a see-saw.
And instead of the C7's 4 pivot points (one short
kingpin on top, one long kingpin inside the baseplate, a spring/tension
mechanism, and a set of rotating discs), with the CX there is
now only ONE pivot point like a standard truck. A top + bottom
bushing setup provides the push back to center.
In a programmer's analogy...Carver figured out
in the last couple years how to achieve an arguably better carving
experience with just 10 lines of code (CX) rather than 100 lines
of code (C7). It's a huge efficiency improvement that makes a
lot of sense. The magic is all up in the front truck. The reason
they're sold in pairs is just to keep the height and hangar width
of the back the same, as far as I can tell.
One thing with both of these trucks is you'll
need a LOT of riser. Flat riser, on both. Angling either of these
(wedging) really doesn't add to the performance, in fact it seems
like it detracts from it. The CX hangar already has a natural
angle to it, and the swivel needs to go from side to side without
resistance that wedging actually adds.
The best way to figure it out is just get a couple
sets and ride! The back truck can be the same so if you're into
flatland surfing, I'd recommend getting both the C7 AND the CX
- DaddiesBoardshop.com and solidskate.com are a couple great distributors!
I've busted the C7 internal spring which is probably
easy to replace, and I might try using something a little stiffer,
as I still don't get as much return to center from the C7 as I'd
like.
Gullwing Cruiser 60s / Randal 150s
In the first years of exploring the world of
LDP, I put the most pumping mileage on these (and broke countless
kingpins due to a preference for keepin' everything loose.) The
tightness and hardness of the bushing is key to the pump equation.
The cool thing about Randals and Gullwings is how quickly you
can change the ride just by changing up the bushings.
Khiro's and the stock Gullwing bushings work
best. The Randal stock yellows are ok too but they do shred fast
-- and that seems to be about when they feel best.
Exkate Torsions
Sporty and a nice spring back to center, especially
the red bushing/ball. Smooth carving truck with a radically tight
turning radius. Totally different feel, although Revenge trucks
have a similar, updated design where the torsion bushing is encased
and the range of motion is limited (in part to avoid wheelbite.)
www.exkate.com
Originals
Rode these years ago before the 8's and 10's
were even out, and have recently re-discovered the pumping potential
on these. I normally ride 6's for flatland pumps.
The wider hangars are incredibly well-suited
for downhill carving, and they do take a little getting used to
as the carves are more 'locked in' than the Randal/Gullwing carves
most people are used to. Better for slow to medium-speed hills,
a total carvers dream on those long winding gradual miles-long
runs.
Absolutely worth adding to your quiver. Besides
the fact Scott Imbrie is a super cool dude and has gone way above
and beyond on my orders so far!
www.originalskateboards.com
Seismics
Used to have these on all my slalom decks, now
starting to tinker with carving setups using these. The Seismic
action is more technical and not as "rounded". I've
moved over to hangar + bushing setups since in slalom, and experimented
with Seismics lighter springs for carving, and new wedging/dewedging
experiments for flatlanding. There's an excellent turning radius
to be discovered. Dan Gesmer was way ahead in the development
and analysis of the physics of pumping, and his trucks' geometry
are the proof!
www.3dm-sport.com
www.geoskate.com
Revenges
First impression on the Revenges is they're amazing
for cranking downhill carves! The trucks have a very positive
stopping point at max carve, minimal need for riser.
The Revenges' turning action pivots inward toward
the deck - like an Original truck - whereas Carvers and RTR's
swivel on a plane more horizontal with the deck, allowing an easier
lateral pump. These may not be the trucks for long distance pumps.
I've mounted them back+front for a dedicated carving / downhill
setup on a Lib Tech and they were pretty sweet. Then only weeks
after getting them, I had a Gullwing rear + Revenge front setup
that got jacked, so now I just have the remaining Revenge as a
front truck on my RollsRolls.
GUS Truck
Japanese-made, pivot truck. Sometimes referred
to as the "poor man's Radikal."
Tracker Rear off-set
What I will say about this truck for now, is
that it sticks the turns!!
Tracker 85mm Midtrack
Brad Jackman is responsible for getting me hooked
on this thing. Excellent TS truck!
Seismic Speed Vents - 77mm. Currently,
these or possibly the Blast Waves are about as big as I'd go for
LDP boards. You're going to need a couple angled wedge risers on
the front PLUS another 1/4" or so of flat riser. Once you can
get these set up to ride without wheebite and you're comfortable
with the height, you'll be reaching faster cruising speeds as a
result. The tradeoff will be whether you feel you can keep pumping
to keep up the momentum on large wheels.
DE THANE! DE THANE!
Chaput's new Retro urethane has landed! It is
bouncy and springy like a super ball, which makes them feel like
they'll roll forever. You need at least one set. Don't think,
just buy them now.
Running 66mm on my Cyber/Tight deck and 70mm
on my Hybrid/GS slalom deck. They come in vibrant tropical colors
and look good enough to eat. In fact if you were drunk, you could
probably eat one and not know it until the morning after.
Big Zigs, shape of a Gumball, in the new urethane.
76mm. Normally, 'rebound' and 'snap' are terms I would use only
for describing the liveliness of a composite deck. But this urethane
has some serious bounce all its own. I'm running 83a front and 80a
rear on a couple LDP setups and the grip is insane.
Abec-11 Grippins, 70mm. I like the center-set
design, as you could easily rotate and flip these wheels for even
wear. They were grippier than the Flashbacks, but still had a controlled
slide, which the 3dm and newer Abec11 urethane does not. These were
on my Lib that was stolen. Waaaah!!!
Abec-11 Flashbacks, 70mm - the classic, all-around
longboard wheel in the 75-78 duros. At the same time, some of the
fastest world's cyber records were set on the 88-92 durometer combos.
Also a great sliding wheel according to some folks from P-town.
Abec-11 Gumballs, 76mm - big and Juicy. A little
too fast for Giant Slalom at least for my taste. Perfectly sticky
and responsive on a big longboard.
Abec-11 Flywheel 101mm - they don't make 'em
anymore. I was lucky enough to grab a set off eBay in 2001 when
I first set up my distance Subsonic drop deck. The hubs are larger
with much less urethane than the 97mm's which is now the biggest
you can go in the abec11 selection. Apparently a popular choice
amongst the streetlugers in the late 90's. I'll plan to ride these
big green mamas down to the hubs!
3dm / Seismic HOT SPOTS - 69mm. These
were the wheel to get in 2005, and are still taking top podium spots
in slalom. Just slightly larger than the uber-popular Avalons, and
essentially answering the most common Avalon post-market modification,
the trimming down of the outer lip to make the wheels' contact patch
slightly narrower and ultimately grippier.
3dm/Turner Avalons, 68mm - I run these on many
of my slalom setups, usually 86a in front and 82a in back. Hardly
anyone I know actually uses them "untrimmed" - an easy
to do after market modification that shaves the outer lip off each
wheel, adding more traction. The Seismic Hot Spots were essentially
an answer to that issue, coming off the shelf with a narrower contact
patch and at 69mm diameter.
3dm/Turner Avilas, 75mm - these became my main
choice of LDP wheel, especially the softer duros as I've found them
to be extremely versatile, evening out all the rocky, uneven long
bike trails and giving the feet a much needed reprieve.
Powell Pool Bombers, 65mm - for starting out in
the pools and parks with a grippy, responsive wheel I'm sold. At
some point I'll probably move to the harder "pool" formula
in the blue color.
This is a Garmin Forerunner 201 and I'm totally
pleased with using it to track raw distances. The altitude measurements
are pretty sketchy, but the distance and timing is relatively
accurate.
After powering up, it usually takes a minute
to locate satellites when the skies are clear, and takes longer
in overcast conditions. I don't mind the short wait, it actually
reminds me to stretch out before jumping on the board, something
that I've come to not only appreciate but respect.
The 201's got a serial cable port to PC, where
the upgrade to 301 gives you USB connect instead, and a heart
rate monitor, but you pay another $50 or so.
I bought this 201 off eBay for cheap, but for
a second one I got a 305 w/heart rate monitor, at R.E.I.
I'm also using the 101 nowadays. The downside
is that it doesn't have any PC connection, so you lose all that
cool data manipulation online. But it came more from necessity
-- I needed a GPS where you could simply change batteries, for
events like the 24-hour rides, and the 101 is the ticket for that.
The other GPS I've been toying with was created
more for orienteering. It's really powerful, and syncs up fast,
but the downside is that it doesn't seem to clearly capture the
concept of a "session" as much as the Forerunner series.
It's designed more to track waypoints and chart a course, likely
over terrain that isn't already clearly marked, like out on forested
trails. I bought this one for tracking rides that go past 24-hours
though, because the AA batteries will actually last beyond that,
possibly 28 hours even, plus they can simply be changed, so no
AC power is needed here either. Great for uber-long distance rides
across the country, perhaps?
Here's a WEDGING diagram that sums things
up well.
I got this from Chris Chaput's webpage, but originally
this was from a Rad Pad advertisement back in the late 70's.
#1 is the most "carvy" pumping setup,
and #2 keeps the back truck more stable for a more slalom/technical
pumping setup. Steer clear from configurations #3 or #4.
I don't really have any 'favorite' wedge pads.
It's a chunk of plastic or rubber that angles your truck more
or less, or keeps the wheels from chomping the deck. You can make
them from wood, many people in slalom do.
But probably the best all in one packaged deal
is the Khiro Wedge kit, with all kind of angles to mix and match
on your setups.
BUSHINGS
Bushings I use for Split-Fires:
White Khiro Barrels. One on top, one on bottom.
Flat washers. Simple, and last forever.
Bushings for Bennetts:
White or Orange Khiro cone on bottom + White
Khiro barrel. This is just the bottom configuration. Then a White
or Orange Khiro cone on top. Don't care a whole lot for he aluminum
cores because they tend to blow out a little faster for a distance
setup.
Bushings that work best for the Carver CX:
1. Carver's stock red bushings...pretty damn
good straight out of the box!
2. Khiro blue or white combinations, blue barrel on bottom and
either white barrel or coned one on top, I use extra washers so
I don't have to screw the nut down as much
3. Radikal 80a (red) or 85a (blue) -- although these are almost
too big to fit the Carvers, you have to kind of jam the truck
down into the pivot cup it just barely fits over the bottom bushing.
The reds are probably best. I've also liked the ride of red on
bottom and clear on top.
4. STIMS! These are nice on the bottom... however, one thing to
consider is you will probably CHEW through bushings more often
with Carver CXs because they do put a lot of twist-torque on them.
So Stims can be an expensive habit to maintain.
Again Khiro is king for a full set of all their
different durometer bushings, so either try out a full Khiro pack,
or custom-select a Radikal Race Pack of bushings.
If you skate hard and often, you'll chew through
bushings, so its always a good investment!
Eric is one of the skaters who recently pumped
187 miles in LIVESTRONG IV, and he's been tinkering like a mad
scientist on Mark Groenenboom's "Cambiar" dropped deck
brackets. This is one of his recent ideas to help extend the life
of bushings on a Bennett truk.
You can easily pay between $40--$100 for a pair
of skate shoes. It really depends if you're looking to appeal
to or fit into some scene, which doesn't interest me. I just want
shoes that hold up to lots of footbraking and feel comfortable
walking around in. I don't expect a lot of arch support, but rather
a nice flat sole to stay in best contact with the board. If you
really need arches or heel support you can pick those things up
separately and move them between your shoes.
Since I do burn through more shoes, especially
one particular long winding hill on my way to work, I've recently
found some World Industry shoes in the $20---$25 range that are
working great. Will probably stick with these in the high mileage
months of summer, then go back to the more expensive Vans or e/s
shoes that are basically my two favorites.
And as LDP evolves, and guys like Barefoot Ted
come into the fray introducing new products like Vibram FiveFinger
shoes, it just proves that there are other ways to take care of
the feet.
I was fascinated with the idea of barefooting
years back, but after trying out a few sessions and shredding
up my feet on the grip tape (and reading horror stories about
people running out a too-fast downhilling run barefoot) I "retired"
the idea somewhat for distance excursions of any significant length.
Now, I've been revisiting this again, and following
in the footsteps of the old school slalom scene, most whom stick
with thin-soled canvas shoes like Vans or Converse. They burn
up a bit faster than the newer skate shoes, but you get a lot
more feel for the board and more control overall. The other positive
side effect is that your feet actualy get much stronger in the
process. Some people with extremely high arches still may not
be able to go this route, but I'm more and more convinced that
you can "teach" your feet to get stronger with the thin,
flat soled shoes. Or none at all -- as long as you are always
in control of your speed, and don't go any faster than you can
comfortably run out.
Tierney T-rides Board. Gotta say, it's
kinda fun. Stable at speed. Totally unstable without speed. Indy
rubberized + urethane caster wheels on bottom. Supposed to be
a cross-trainer for downhill snowboard racers.
But we're talking asphalt here, not snow, and
sliding is not an option on this one.
Had to leave this one to the younger daredevils...but
I do miss it.
BMW Streetcarver. Built by engineers,
for engineers? Interesting for a few rides. Okay, that was expensive
fun. Thank God for eBay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Epilogue: Some Streetcarver fan mailed me about
how great this thing is and why don't I explain my very brief
rant here on my page. So here goes.
I tested this board about 9 sessions over 3 weeks,
to be fair, and to really consider whether I wanted to keep it
or not, considering the investment. Let me just point out a few
observations:
- It felt like a highchair on wheels. The best
carving machines have a much lower CG.
- Weight is around 25-35 lbs? After repeatedly
hiking a big hill it feels like 80 lbs.
- Turn it to the left. Stays there. You HAVE
TO consciously turn back to the right. NO return to center. Smooth
turning "mechanism", yes, but where's the power?
- No flex at all. Like standing on a cast iron
plate.
- Bearings made a "jingling" sound,
so I googled it. This happens to be a very well known bug amongst
the BMW owners. You can repair, but that's $$ on top of $$$$.
- IMHO, it is NOT a "snowboard cross trainer."
Training on the BMW Streetcarver teaches you how to ride a BMW
Streetcarver better.
- One good point. It LOOKS very cool.
- One last solid point, to be fair... Kudos to
someone with lots of cash for pushing the envelope on a matriculated
truck concept. Most board builders and designers simply don't
have the resources to follow through with a project like this.
I don't know all the background on who at BMW conceived and pushed
this through, but I do appreciate their effort. By adding some
kind of responsiveness to each "joint" in the trucks,
and more give and "life" to the deck, this could go
somewhere. It would still however be a complex design, with lots
of moving parts, which I prefer not to encourage in a sport which
wears down parts with repetitive motion.
IMHO, as far as the "skate scene" is
concerned, I still feel better steering people who really want
a carving machine away from this one. But if you have an engineer's
mind, and want a nice looking trophy, and something to tinker
with, then feel free to blow your $$. I'd rather spend my next
$600 on two very decent slalom decks, or a couple sweet carving
decks plus a skatepark deck, and that's the direction I would
steer most skateboarders who really want something to shred on.
Flowlab Deep Carve System. 7 inline-like
wheels in front, 7 more in back. Carves go click, click, click
as the the turning radius changes. Tried it a couple weeks. The
carving sensation doesn't work for me. Not like a surfboard, not
like a flexy skateboard. I dunno. But it seems like they need
to get that "click" out of the carve. One thing they
do well is hire a bunch of babes to promote at events.
I guess the kids who rip up skateparks like these
as a kind of hybrid carver and park riding deck.
Stowboard. Word of advice:
Don't drink and bid on eBay.
