Monday, February 18, 2008
We continued to work in the attic. On Saturday I sprayed a product called Sporcidin in the attic space, trying to cover the entire roof area. I am hopeful that this will kill the mold that is growing.
After that dried, I then shoved some batting up against the wind wash in order to hold in the future blown-in insulation. I got about 40% done before Dad showed up on Sunday.
He helped me finish that task, and then we laid out and re-installed the batting that was in good shape. I made sure that the batts were layhing flat on the drywall and skipped any area that had obstacles.
That afternoon, we went to Lowes and purchased a new Owens Corning product for blown in fiberglass called Atticcat. The machine was free with a 10 bag purchase. We were the first customers to use this particular machine.
We tried that afternoon with moderate success, but found some issues that we were able to resolve:
After that dried, I then shoved some batting up against the wind wash in order to hold in the future blown-in insulation. I got about 40% done before Dad showed up on Sunday.
He helped me finish that task, and then we laid out and re-installed the batting that was in good shape. I made sure that the batts were layhing flat on the drywall and skipped any area that had obstacles.
That afternoon, we went to Lowes and purchased a new Owens Corning product for blown in fiberglass called Atticcat. The machine was free with a 10 bag purchase. We were the first customers to use this particular machine.
We tried that afternoon with moderate success, but found some issues that we were able to resolve:
- The machine came with 2 lengths of 50' hose with a joint between them. The joint kept coming loose. We fixed this by reefing down on the hose clamp and then using electrical tape and really stretching it tight to keep the joint closed.
- We found that you cannot have too many twists and turns in the hose. If you lay it out and have very few bends it works bettter. Otherwise the hose gets clogged and you cannot get any insulation out.
- The connection from the machine to the hose vibrates itself loose. Use a large pliers to tighten it - do not trust that hand tight will keep it screwed on.
- There is a knife that slices the bags open as you feed them. This knife dulls quickly and can get jammed up with plastic from the bags. It needs to be cleared after every 1/2 bag.
- The remote control does not always work on the first try. If you use it, push it off before you think you need it turned off.
The fiberglass did not itch and after we found the solutions above everything went pretty well. We did use walkie talkies to communicate on/off status, which worked well. Also, we pushed this stuff up 2 stories.
Current status is that for about 50% of the house, we have:
- Removed wet insulation
- Sealed all bypasses
- Sprayed for mold
- Filled the area near the windwash with batting so that blown insulation would not go out onto the soffits (yes we have vent chutes)
- Replaced batting that was in reasonable shape
- Blown in R50 fiberglass insulation
Now time will tell if we have resolved the moisture issue.
Labels: attic, attic condensation, atticcat insulation, bypasses, lowes, moisture, owens corning
Wednesday, February 06, 2008
Over the holidays I did a little on the house including putting some primer on the walls and replacing some drywall tape that had become stained from the ongoing water problem.
Water.
The water issue that we have had since the remodel continues. I got on the roof and covered 2 sides of the louvered vents thinking that we still had snow and ice in them. I also put about a tube of roofing compound around each, but still the water comes in. There was a huge ice dam on the roof over the vaulted ceiling that I removed.
Now water has penetrated different areas of the house too, coming through can lights, down interior walls, etc, so I finally looked into the attic space.
Condensation. Everywhere.
The nails are rusted, the underside of the slipsheets are dripping with water and the underside of the roof is iced over. So all the water has been running down the inside of the roof, and dropping off when it hits something, like a nail or a truss member. If it did not drop off, it went into the end of the insulation. This has caused icecicles to form from inside the soffits.
Upon more investigation I have found mold growing in the attic on the wood and in the insulation.
In doing research on this issue, it apppears that the condensation is caused by these factors coming together:
1) The warm air in the house has penetrated into the attic
2) The warm air was moist
3) It got really cold (-20 F)
4) The vents in the roof maybe undersized
1) Penetration
To determine how the warm air is getting into the attic I had an energy consultant take infrared images of the house. This can tell us where air is moving within the walls and ceilings.
This image shows the air leakage around can lights. Yes these lights are the "air tite" style. In addition to the 15 or so can lights in the top level, can lights, in which there is leakage around the top plates. The worst however, was coming from the rooms that still had no drywall on the ceiling: The master bath and closet.
So, to begin the process, Dad came over and he and I and a handyman that we are bartering with, Greg, did the following:
Pulled insulation out over the master bedroom, closet, bath and laundry room, drywalled the master bath ceiling and began the drying out and sealing process. I have placed 4 fans in the attic to dry out what moisture was remaining. We started throwing out the old insulation (which is costing a great deal to get rid of and I cannot find an insulation recycling center), and began sealing the bypasses in the attic. To do this, we have started foaming where drywall meets the top plate. We have to do this in every room, not just the outside walls as we need to seperate the attic air from the house air. We have made / purchased some boxes that are about 13" square to go over the can lights. These are made from insulation board that is covered in foil. Each is cut to fit over a can, and foam is sued to seal the box to the back of the dryall. The ply has to be removed to get a good seal.
Also, where we can, we are using acoustical caulk to seal the poly to the top plate before drywall. This adds a level of protection of air bypass.
As of this writing we are nearly done sealing up the area where insulation has been removed. I have 2 cans yet to do and a few more areas that need top plate sealing. My body is bruised all over, I am tired and itch.
When we get the one side done, we can re-insulate. I am going to use blown in this time as it gets in the corners better and there are no joints that can let air move around as there are in batts, then we move to the other side.
The good news is that Greg took a sheet of drywall off of a wall that had and found no mold behind it. What you see below is the wall in the atrium where the water has been the worst.
You can see the foam insulation and the water damage on the left and below of the left window.
Additional sources of moisture. One of the sources of moisture in the house is the uncovered dirt in the crawlspace. The crawlsapce needs to be cleaned out, insulated and sealed with poly. I basically need to create a vapor barrier to keep the moisture from the crawl space from getting into the house.
Another source is the whole house humidifier. We turned this up this year. When we got the house to about 40% humidity, it got really really cold outside. Humidity % is relative to temperature, the colder it is, the less the humidity should be, so we went in the wrong direction in both temp and humidity. We have shut this off since we discovered the condensation.
2) Venting
To start with, Greg and I sealed up around all the existing vents to ensure that there was no water penetration around them.
The energy consultant and I determined that the roof is under vented and that we should add 3-5 more vents. I think that based upon what I learned about low-profile ridge vents that I should add more. the low-profile ridge vents can be completely shut off with 2" of snow.
So, I think that we are going to add 3 louvered vents over Sydney's side of the roof, and perhaps 2 turbine vents over the ridge area. The area over the master bedroom has 3 louvered vents already and that should be sufficient.
Then, I want to replace the low vents that are in the roof over the vaulted ceiling with something that has less potential to get snow in them.
In talking with other insulation experts, there are those that beleive that venting is a much smaller issue than the penetration of warm, moist air, so we will do these last.
Whose fault is it? How do we pay for this all? State Farm Insurance won't cover it.
Water.
The water issue that we have had since the remodel continues. I got on the roof and covered 2 sides of the louvered vents thinking that we still had snow and ice in them. I also put about a tube of roofing compound around each, but still the water comes in. There was a huge ice dam on the roof over the vaulted ceiling that I removed.
Now water has penetrated different areas of the house too, coming through can lights, down interior walls, etc, so I finally looked into the attic space.
Condensation. Everywhere.
The nails are rusted, the underside of the slipsheets are dripping with water and the underside of the roof is iced over. So all the water has been running down the inside of the roof, and dropping off when it hits something, like a nail or a truss member. If it did not drop off, it went into the end of the insulation. This has caused icecicles to form from inside the soffits.
Upon more investigation I have found mold growing in the attic on the wood and in the insulation.
In doing research on this issue, it apppears that the condensation is caused by these factors coming together:
1) The warm air in the house has penetrated into the attic
2) The warm air was moist
3) It got really cold (-20 F)
4) The vents in the roof maybe undersized
1) Penetration
To determine how the warm air is getting into the attic I had an energy consultant take infrared images of the house. This can tell us where air is moving within the walls and ceilings.
This image shows the air leakage around can lights. Yes these lights are the "air tite" style. In addition to the 15 or so can lights in the top level, can lights, in which there is leakage around the top plates. The worst however, was coming from the rooms that still had no drywall on the ceiling: The master bath and closet.
So, to begin the process, Dad came over and he and I and a handyman that we are bartering with, Greg, did the following:
Pulled insulation out over the master bedroom, closet, bath and laundry room, drywalled the master bath ceiling and began the drying out and sealing process. I have placed 4 fans in the attic to dry out what moisture was remaining. We started throwing out the old insulation (which is costing a great deal to get rid of and I cannot find an insulation recycling center), and began sealing the bypasses in the attic. To do this, we have started foaming where drywall meets the top plate. We have to do this in every room, not just the outside walls as we need to seperate the attic air from the house air. We have made / purchased some boxes that are about 13" square to go over the can lights. These are made from insulation board that is covered in foil. Each is cut to fit over a can, and foam is sued to seal the box to the back of the dryall. The ply has to be removed to get a good seal.
Also, where we can, we are using acoustical caulk to seal the poly to the top plate before drywall. This adds a level of protection of air bypass.
As of this writing we are nearly done sealing up the area where insulation has been removed. I have 2 cans yet to do and a few more areas that need top plate sealing. My body is bruised all over, I am tired and itch.
When we get the one side done, we can re-insulate. I am going to use blown in this time as it gets in the corners better and there are no joints that can let air move around as there are in batts, then we move to the other side.
The good news is that Greg took a sheet of drywall off of a wall that had and found no mold behind it. What you see below is the wall in the atrium where the water has been the worst.
You can see the foam insulation and the water damage on the left and below of the left window.Additional sources of moisture. One of the sources of moisture in the house is the uncovered dirt in the crawlspace. The crawlsapce needs to be cleaned out, insulated and sealed with poly. I basically need to create a vapor barrier to keep the moisture from the crawl space from getting into the house.
Another source is the whole house humidifier. We turned this up this year. When we got the house to about 40% humidity, it got really really cold outside. Humidity % is relative to temperature, the colder it is, the less the humidity should be, so we went in the wrong direction in both temp and humidity. We have shut this off since we discovered the condensation.
2) Venting
To start with, Greg and I sealed up around all the existing vents to ensure that there was no water penetration around them.
The energy consultant and I determined that the roof is under vented and that we should add 3-5 more vents. I think that based upon what I learned about low-profile ridge vents that I should add more. the low-profile ridge vents can be completely shut off with 2" of snow.
So, I think that we are going to add 3 louvered vents over Sydney's side of the roof, and perhaps 2 turbine vents over the ridge area. The area over the master bedroom has 3 louvered vents already and that should be sufficient.
Then, I want to replace the low vents that are in the roof over the vaulted ceiling with something that has less potential to get snow in them.
In talking with other insulation experts, there are those that beleive that venting is a much smaller issue than the penetration of warm, moist air, so we will do these last.
Whose fault is it? How do we pay for this all? State Farm Insurance won't cover it.
Labels: attic, bypasses, condensation, insulation, moisture, sealing, venting
