From RM....

Max,
Enjoyed your pictures of the building process of River Pass. Like you, I have been absent from railroading for many years and have been bitten by the bug again.
I just purchased the River Pass layout kit and just started on phase one. I would like to hear from you on any lessons learned or tips you picked up on the way that wasn't covered in the instructions or were not made clear enough.
Keep me posted when you start taking pictures of the landscaping phase. Be interested to see how your layout turns out.

My reply:

Thank you for your kind words. I assume you are still in the first phase of construction or just starting. With that assumption I would first recommend using the Low Temp Glue Gun for all of the construction.
Using the tack glue is just to slow of a process. (using the tack glue for the track bed and track DOES work great). Use the hot glue for all the Styrofoam construction of the base, risers and inclines.

Did you buy just the first kit or did you get all three of the construction kits? I would recommend having all the kits at hand as you start the building process. Also you will save time and money if you use the pre-packaged track kit Woodland Scenics offers.

Make sure to get a NMRA HO gauge to check your clearance between ridges and around corners, like entering and exiting the Tunnels.

Make sure you sand away any bumps or ridges from the risers and inclines that remain after you have applied the plaster cloth and the cloth overlaps. Test your track often with "live" (power on) rolling stock and engines.

The track plan uses 18" Radius and this will prohibit you from using certain Engines and rolling stock, like passenger cars. Make sure you use Engines and rolling stock designed for 18" radius.
I found that putting switches leading into or out of a incline is not a good design practice. An engine coming down or up an incline heading directly into a switch can cause the hook on the bottom of the front coupler to catch on the switch "frog". To over come this test and re-test the transitions of the two switches up into and down out of the two switches. I used glue for the track bed and also to hold the track in place, except I applied no glue under the switches. Sand paper the inclines to make the inclines transition up and into the switch smooth and even. With some experimentation you will get the engines to pass over the switches smoothly.

Additionally, creating the roads with smooth-it and paving tape is very messy. I got good results, but if I were to do it over again I would have put the roads in before I plastered between the risers; thus giving me more room to work with the straight edge to smooth the surface of the road. I found that I needed to buy a second roll of paving tape to complete the foundations and side walks.

I did not realize that the road leading up and out of the town was to go ON TOP of the mountain at the top right of the layout. I wound up putting the road into the mountain and not on top, so I would do that instead, thus allowing the building to be placed on that road.

I have attached a couple of pictures with the problem areas I mentioned circled for your reference. I hope this helps and I will email you with any other tips as I think of them.

I am going to be redoing the site for easier navigation soon. Additionally I have already started the Grand Valley Layout that is JOINED to River Pass to give me a 12 foot by 8 foot layout. I have construction pictures started and I will be posting them soon also. I also have tons of links and tips to add to the help section of the site as soon as I have time.
Regards,
 

My reply:

Both kits are extremely well designed and put together. First off I suggest you plan your bench work. I have taken liberty of attaching a copy of basic plans that I used for my initial 4x8 bench work.
I went to builders square and had them rip the strips from finish oak ply for the supports and legs then used 3/8x4x8 good one side for the top. I liked the result so much I built a second for the Grand Valley.

I guess u saw my web site with the pictures of my progress. I have been working on it slowly over the last months, but not as much as I would like. I have just about finished the ballast on the tracks (all except for the siding). I have most of the paved roads done and I am now putting in the foundation and side walks for the city. I should have updated pix on the site in next day or so.

It is hard to suggest one over the other. Both kits with the track kits cost within $60 of each other (assuming suggested retail). Many Internet Hobby suppliers and even Ebay has some great deals. WATCH out for shipping on the main kit. The box is about over 27"wide x 51" long and 11" deep. (this is the main box for either River or Grand and about 50 pounds. The Grand kit has the scenery products in it. All you need to get is the building kit for the city buildings.

Track laying on both is critical to avoid kinking the track ever so slightly; I used tack glue to lay the track bed as well as the track itself with great results. I suggest using tack glue sparingly on the bottom of the rails of the track, especially around curves.

On the Grand Layout I found the two crossovers (90 degree and the 60 degree) crossing to be a little sensitive and had to shim them to level them perfectly so the hooks on the front of engines did not snag. Also the snaking of the track coming out of the bridge into mountain is critical. The switches are well placed on level area and unlike the River Layout had no trouble with them.

The River Layout has some critical points especially when you are coming out of turn into or out of a switch - when it is on incline or decline. (to further illust. I have attached some pix with the critical areas circled for the River Layout, as well as a email I sent to someone building the River Layout.

All things considered, I made the choice for the River because, 1) I liked the track layout and 2) It came in three separate kits. Foundation, then the Scenery, then the building kit. and 3) because it has a nice water bed/creek area that I thought was a nice touch.

After building and laying the track for both; I would say each has it strong points.  A strong point for the Grand Layout, is that unlike the River Layout, I can run TWO trains at same time on the one layout.
Grand Layout has outer circle to run train; but the inner circle uses the backside of the oval and without block detection and auto switching (which I can do, but choose not to at this time); I can only run one train at a time on River. With the Grand Layout, since it is an oval with a figure eight in the center, I can run two trains at once. Additionally the Grand has a siding spur that has plenty of room for expansion.
While the Grand does not come with materials for a "wet" creek bed; there is a dry bed under the bridge with you could add "water" using the woodland products.

On both I found I needed more paving tape and another container of "Smooth It" product to make roads and sidewalks the way I wanted.

All things considered; if I had to chose only one layout; I would go with the Grand Valley, for the reasons sited.

I would suggest downloading both the instruction PDF files and the track layout for each and make your decisions based on which track and scenery layout you like.
Let me know if you have trouble finding those files on the Woodland Scenics site.  They are great folks and give the full instruction books for their products at their site for download. Additionally, I suggest buying the track kit for the layout you chose, as it will save you much trouble and time and also I believe a little money. The kits come with manual switches, which you can upgrade with the electric snap switch add-on or power with a slow motion motor like tortoise motor from Circuitron.

If you find this helpful, please let Woodland Scenics know about it. I have been trying to get them to put link to my site in my testimonial.

I will be updating the site more this week and more and more as we get into the fall and winter season.

Hope this helps,