Oct. 18 Infidel Guy Radio Forum
Like Chris Reeve I am a quadriplegic. I also just as he am for embryonic
as well as adult stem cell research. Both will be useful but for now
only embryonic stem cells are capable of total pluripotency, with the
possible exception of cord blood but alas mine is long gone. I am also
for somatic cell nuclear transfer aka therapeutic cloning but further
than that as an aside I have no objection to reproductive cloning whatsoever.
I've never yet heard a cogent argument from anyone religionist or atheist,
not even Leon Kass, against someday when perfected utilizing reproductive
human cloning that did not invoke some religious reason or airy fairy 'yuke
factor'.
I do not believe that a clump of cells only several divisions from the
first split has the same rights as a fully formed and living human
being that has memories, loved ones, plans for the future, hopes
desires, feeling and emotions. It's not as yet human while not yet possessing
a brain and nervous system. In fact the interesting thing about religionist
arguments against SCNT is that they decry it as being little different than
reproductive cloning -- the slippery slope to, a slope as I said is not to be
feared -- and also abhor reproductive cloning while at the same time
insisting that the SCNT engineered embryo have full human rights.
How can they be against cloning and yet insist clones are deserving
human rights, deserving of their humanity -- the very humanity they
deny that clones have in their first objections to them. Those first
objections being that it's against god and inhuman/inhumane science.
Hell most don't even believe a clone would have a soul, notwithstanding
no such "spirit" [ethereal non, corporeal] souls exist to begin with. So if it
has no soul in their opinion then what's the problem? If clones now have by
fiat human rights and therefore apparently for the relgious the soul they at
first deny then why is it so bad to make a clone of a dead child or
to clone oneself say to avoid the cruelty of nature where one has been left
childless and unable to conceive and possibly the last of your family line?
There are many decent and rational life affirming reasons to reproducively
clone human beings
For the record I have always maintained fully formed clones deserve
human rights. It would be murder of a human being and totally unethical
to salvage them for parts, if they have formed a human brain. But if
not then I feel it's ok. Without development of the brain, such as in
anencephalia or an induced state therein then there would be no
consciousness and hence an unaware bag of parts. However, this is
acedemic theorizing over something that need never be done. Tissue
engineering will develop methods for organ cloning and repair that will
never require harvesting of parts from fully formed bodies, which I
admit most could not accept and would see as ghoulish.
For me the cells harvested from an engineered non developed embryo
[division vehicle] doesn't even need to be from a human egg. I'd be
happy with a bovine shell, just transfer a human mitochondria [so
there's no residual foreign DNA] along with the whole neucleus of one
of my cells and what we have is spare parts for me that belong to me!
and made eniterely with my DNA so no autoimmune tissue rejection. It's
my DNA, MINE!
I'll do with it what I want including and not limited to making it
possible for me to walk again. And if I should need to replace my
excised right kidney or the other one under so much stress right now or
a new liver or a new heart or replace my telomeres so my cells
rejuvinate and slow my aging I'll damn well do that to. My business
what I do.
I'll close with a word or two for Chris. I'll miss him. I'll miss his
bravery and gumption. Man I thought I was sooper-quad! [inside joke] I
hope someone good can pick up his torch and carry it forward for us all
and I do mean all, not just those of us afflicted with spinal injury or
disease as in my own additional affliction of diabetes.
FutureQ [aka James Swayze]
Selected Posts To Cryonet:
#17471 September 6, 2001 -- My Current Condition
#13690 Re: CryoNet #13687 - #13689
#13763 Re: CryoNet #13752 - #13757
#13827 Re: CryoNet #13812 - #13821
#13876 RE: Affordability, supply & demand, advertising, life insurance and LN2
#14091 Re: NDE, personal experience
#14117 Woman loses identity
#14165 Stirring the pot
#14231 Re: CryoNet #14223 - #14230
#14420 Re: Oxidation theory of aging, Greg Fahy
#14481 Prize Bull Cloned
#14575 Re: Alien humanity, highly doubtful
#14649 Re: CryoNet #14637 - #14644
#14650 Re: CryoNet #14637 - #14644
#14814 Cryonic capitol punishment
#15205 Promoting cryonics
#15935 Some interesting reading
#15937 False dichotomies
#15584 Mighty mice fight aging
#15724 Painless best
#15748 Short sighted "so called" experts
#15749 Vitrification etc.
#15773 We too must organize...damn luddites!!!
#15789 Re: CryoNet #15772 - #15778
#15816 Numbers of suffering people
Singularity... Bah Humbug!
#15946 The reality of our unending precarious situation
#15955 Who's future will it be?
#15956 Re: CryoNet #15948 - #15953
#15965 Aussie article critique
#16091 Re: CryoNet #16070 - #16077
#16143 Hollywood considers duplicity
#16163 Some research I stumbled onto regarding ischemia
#16208 Homes for orphaned cephalons
How PayPal works
#16237 Let's be committed sardines.
#16334 Re: Oregon for cryonics
#16337 What is the beef with Seventh Day Adventists?
#16376 Re: Racism and cryonics
#16425 Sex and the Single Uploaded Entity
#16446 Would love to be signed up...wanna help?
#16505 Thanks to everyone, To Scott Badger, Robert Ettinger and Mike Perry
#16544 Regarding ways to help me help myself
#17067 Pringle the uninformed, souls? Huh, George Harrison?
#17069 NDE study not scientific
#17219 More about the cloning of humans debate
#17248 P-53 gene therapy for cancer, attn: Linda
#17340 Why are they so damn blind?
#17386 Humbled and grateful
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